Theos-Talk Archives (April 2006 Message tt00362)

As I said months ago on Theos-Talk, you can
believe anything Paul asserts.

You can believe whatever you want about me,
more power to you.

Jerome Wheeler in his wonderful article
in a past issue of FOHAT basically said I was
a dugpa or a tool of the dark forces, so anything
Paul or you might add is sorta trifling.  

OBTW I think Robert as editor is
to be commended for allowing such a theosophically based
article to appear in FOHAT.

I mean it is an honor to be in a league of my own.  W.Q. Judge only
accused Besant and Chakravarti of being unconscious tools of 
the dugpas and Brothers of the Shadow.  Jerome in his article seemed 
to be saying I was a conscious agent or maybe a veritable dugpa 
myself.  Of course Jerome must be in the "know" since he writes all 
of this.....

When I first criticized Paul's books years ago, he
saw fit to psychoanalyze me and assign various motives
to me.  It's called ad hominem argument.  DISTRACT FROM THE
HISTORICAL ISSUES BY SIDETRACKING THE DISCUSSION.

It was a nice piece of fantasy fiction.  I think
at that time he said I was a heretic slayer doing the
bidding of the various theosophical organizations to
slay various "heresies" like Paul's own heresy. Such 
a fertile imagination I must say! 

When I published Margaret Thomas' book on my website a number
of Adyar students wrote me saying I was being influenced by
"dugpas" to destroy the Theosophical Movement.  Then dear
Jerome added his wonderful version!

Believe what you want about me, and try to make others believe it...
yea maybe I am one "bad ******** *********."  Watch out Chuck!

Actually it's fun and I can see why Chuck relishes his role
here on Theos-Talk.

But I will confine my comments to Blavatsky & Theosophy and the 
history of the Theosophical movement.  And from time to time (when I 
have the time) I will comment on various topics brought up on Theos-
talk about Blavatsky and Theosophy.

And if I vanish from time to time on Theos-Talk don't worry Carlos I 
will be back.  It is because I am working on 7 different book 
projects at the same time including the sequel to Walter's OBITUARY 
book and another book in which I give more newly discovered Mahatma 
letters from KH and M with colored facsimiles, etc.  These letters 
date to the 1880s, by the way.  Also I'm working on a sourcebook on 
the Bardo, life after death, etc.

But I will dip in from time to time on Theos-Talk to read the 
postings and possibly answer some (yours included.)

Daniel
http://hpb.cc

P.S.  I have had this urging for some time to start signing my name 
as Daniel W.A.L. Caldwell

W.A.L. = "We are legion...."  :)  it would fit in with your own 
fantasies quite well.










--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "carlosaveline" 
<carlosaveline@...> wrote:
>
> Dear Friends, 
> 
> And then you have Paul Johnson with his brilliant "theories" 
against the theosophical movement. 
> 
> Strangely enough, last February  Paul Johnson denounced Daniel 
Caldwell at Theos-talk as a "troller" who invented several aliases 
or "internet-personifications" in order to attack the ULT, to attack 
Paul himself, etc.  Once Johnson made his points with regard to 
Daniel, our slanders-editor diesappeared from Theos-talk with no 
explanations.  Or at least spent some time writing here under other 
names. 
> 
> I am still waiting for Daniel's answer to the texts by Paul 
Johnson on him.
> This is rather important.  In case Daniel actually forged the 
existence of persons like "David Green", or "Terry Hobbes", etc. 
(which he did not deny so far), he might also be inclined to make 
propaganda of other forgers, like Sololoviof, etc.  
> 
> After all, if that is true,  the Coulombs and Soloviof could be 
considered his 19th century coleagues. 
> 
> As we know, Ethics is of the essence if anyone wants to study 
Theosophy.  
> 
> I hope Daniel will answer to Paul Johnson's accusations of 
internet-fraud, and I also hope he will abandon his propaganda about 
the falsehoods created by  the enemies of the theosophical movement, 
who seems to have no respect for facts.    
> 
> Best regards,  Carlos 
> 
>  
> 
> 
> De:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> 
> Para:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> 
> Cópia:
> 
> Data:Tue, 18 Apr 2006 18:54:24 -0000
> 
> Assunto:[Spam] Theos-World Re: Part 2: Compare and contrast the 
Coulomb Testimony with other testimony:
> 
> > Bill,
> > 
> > Yes I agree with everything (or almost everything you write!).
> > 
> > I was not trying to do a definitive analysis but simply
> > wanted to roughly indicate what this comparing and contrasting
> > could be.
> > 
> > I will just comment on just one thing you write since I don't 
have 
> > the time right now to do more:
> > 
> > "There is surely more than one way to fake the appearance of a 
> > master."
> > 
> > Yes surely I agree but hopefully you are not automatically 
saying 
> > that all appearances were therefore faked. Are we open to the 
> > possibility that the appearances were actually genuine? etc. etc.
> > 
> > Thanks for your comments.
> > 
> > Daniel
> > 
> > 
> > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Bill Meredith 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Daniel, In the first testimony Coulomb does not say that the 
> > master 
> > > reported to have been seen by Olcott in the second testimony 
was 
> > either 
> > > Monseiur Coulomb in disguise or the sewn and stuffed head. You 
> > appear to 
> > > be comparing and contrasting apples and oranges, so to speak. 
> > Your 
> > > analysis has relevance in that both testimonies are about the 
> > > "appearance" of a master, however it lacks decisive 
significance 
> > in that 
> > > each testimony is about a different "appearance" at a 
different 
> > time, in 
> > > a different place, and witnessed by different people. 
> > > 
> > > As I understand them, both of the testimonies you present 
below 
> > could 
> > > be true. Both could be false. One could be true and the other 
> > false. 
> > > They do not address the same encounter of a master and 
therefore a 
> > > contrast and comparison of the details is limited to 
generalities 
> > at 
> > > best. None of the details of one testimony precludes the 
details 
> > of 
> > > the other testimony from being true at a different time, 
place, 
> > and 
> > > audience. Nor do any of the details from one testimony 
preclude 
> > the 
> > > details of the other testimony from being false at a different 
> > time, 
> > > place, and audience. There is surely more than one way to fake 
> > the 
> > > appearance of a master.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > peace within,
> > > 
> > > 
> > > bill
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > danielhcaldwell wrote:
> > > > Let us continue with another simple comparing and 
contrasting.
> > > >
> > > > First, I give below Emma Coulomb's basic explanation for the
> > > > appearances of the Masters:
> > > >
> > > > =======================================================
> > > > Later] in one of [her good] moods [Madame Blavatsky] called 
me 
> > up 
> > > > and told me: "See if you can make a head of human size and 
> > place 
> > > > it on that divan," pointing to a sofa in her room, " and 
merely 
> > put 
> > > > a sheet round it; it would have a magic effect by 
moonlight." 
> > What 
> > > > can this mean? I wondered. But knowing how disagreeable she 
> > could 
> > > > make herself if she was stroked on the wrong side, I 
complied 
> > with 
> > > > her wish. She cut a paper pattern of the face I was to make, 
> > which 
> > > > I still have; on this I cut the precious lineaments of the 
> > beloved 
> > > > Master, but, to my shame, I must say that, after all my 
trouble 
> > of 
> > > > cutting, sewing, and stuffing, Madame said that it looked 
like 
> > an 
> > > > old Jew---I suppose she meant Shylock. Madame, with a 
graceful 
> > > > touch here and there of her painting brush, gave it a little 
> > better 
> > > > appearance. But this was only a head, without bust, and 
could 
> > not 
> > > > very well be used, so I made a jacket, which I doubled, and 
> > between 
> > > > the two cloths I placed stuffing, to form the shoulders and 
> > chest; 
> > > > the arms were only to the elbow, because, when the thing was 
> > tried 
> > > > on, we found the long arm would be in the way of him who had 
to 
> > > > carry it. This beauty finished, made Madame quite another 
> > person. 
> > > >
> > > > Let us see for what purpose the doll was made. This was to 
give 
> > a 
> > > > convincing and material proof of the existence of the 
brothers 
> > [the 
> > > > Mahatmas], as their (said) invisible presence did not fully 
> > satisfy 
> > > > the truthseekers. 
> > > >
> > > > Among the many apparitions to which this doll has been 
> > instrumental, 
> > > > I will choose one seen by Mr. Ramaswamier, in December, 
1881. 
> > The 
> > > > Mahatma he saw in his astral body on the balcony at the head-
> > > > quarters of the Theosophical Society in Bombay, on the 
memorable 
> > > > night of December, 1881, was no one else than Monsieur 
Coulomb, 
> > with 
> > > > the doll's head on his own. 
> > > >
> > > > The doll plays the greatest part in these apparitions, and, 
as I 
> > > > have already explained, it is carried on somebody's head; 
but at 
> > > > times it is placed on the top of a long bamboo, and raised 
to 
> > show 
> > > > that it is an astral body; but when the doll has not been at 
> > hand, 
> > > > even a white cloth wrapped round the person who was to 
perform 
> > the 
> > > > Mahatma was at times used, and answered the purpose. 
> > > > ========================================================
> > > >
> > > > Now from Hodgson's account, he writes also about 
this "dummie" 
> > head:
> > > >
> > > > ==================================================
> > > > I was left without any doubt that the appearances [of the 
> > Mahatmas] 
> > > > might have been well produced by [Monsieur] Coulomb in 
> > disguise. I 
> > > > have seen [Monsieur] Coulomb disguised as a Mahatma, and can 
> > > > understand that the figure may have been very impressive. A 
> > dummy 
> > > > head (with shoulders), like that of a Hindu, with beard, &c. 
and 
> > > > fehta [turban], is worn on the top of the head of the person 
> > > > disguised. A long flowing muslin garment falls down in 
front, 
> > and 
> > > > by holding the folds very slightly apart, the wearer is 
enabled 
> > to 
> > > > see, and to speak also, if necessary. I do not think it in 
the 
> > > > least degree likely that any of the witnesses would have 
> > penetrated 
> > > > this disguise had the figure been even much nearer than it 
was, 
> > and 
> > > > the light much better. 
> > > >
> > > > I cannot regard Colonel Olcott's testimony as of any 
scientific 
> > > > value. In particular, his testimony to the alleged "astral" 
> > > > appearance [of the Mahatma Morya] in New York proves, in my 
> > opinion, 
> > > > no more than that he saw someone in his room, who may have 
been 
> > an 
> > > > ordinary Hindu, or some other person, disguised, as a 
Mahatma 
> > for 
> > > > the purpose, and acting for Madame Blavatsky. And the same 
may 
> > be 
> > > > said of all his testimony to apparitions of Mahatmas. 
> > > >
> > > > I need not here say much on the other alleged appearances of 
> > > > Mahatmas, in either their ordinary physical or 
their "astral" 
> > > > bodies. A confederate in disguise is generally an easy and 
> > > > sufficient explanation of them. 
> > > > ===========================================================
> > > >
> > > > Now contrast and compare his explanations with Colonel 
Olcott's
> > > > testimony some of which can be found at:
> > > >
> > > > http://blavatskyarchives.com/olcottandmahatmas.htm
> > > >
> > > > And to be more specific, see this account by Olcott:
> > > >
> > > > =========================================================
> > > > ....On the evening of 4th August [1880], a Mahatma [Master 
> > Morya] 
> > > > visited HPB, and I was called in to see him before he left. 
He 
> > > > dictated a long and important letter to an influential 
friend of 
> > > > ours at Paris, and gave me important hints about the 
management 
> > of 
> > > > current [Theosophical] Society affairs. 
> > > > I was sent away before his visit terminated, and as I left 
him 
> > > > sitting in HPB's room, I cannot say whether his departure 
was a 
> > > > phenomenal disappearance or not....
> > > > ===========================================================
> > > >
> > > > Now are we to suppose that this Mahatma was Mon. Coulomb with
> > > > dummmie on head?
> > > >
> > > > Remember Hodgson said:
> > > >
> > > > 
===============================================================
> > > > A long flowing muslin garment falls down in front, and by 
> > holding 
> > > > the folds very slightly apart, the wearer is enabled to see, 
and 
> > to 
> > > > speak also, if necessary. I do not think it in the least 
degree 
> > > > likely that any of the witnesses would have penetrated this 
> > disguise 
> > > > had the figure been even much nearer than it was, and the 
light 
> > much 
> > > > better. 
> > > > 
================================================================
> > > >
> > > > Remember the dummie had fake eyes, the mouth would not move 
when 
> > the
> > > > "dummie" talked.....etc. etc.
> > > >
> > > > Would Olcott see the obvious especially when he was in the 
same
> > > > room carrying on a conversation with the Mahatma?
> > > >
> > > > Many other observations and points could be made simply by
> > > > contrasting and comparing Coulomb's and Hodgson's account 
with 
> > > > Olcott's firsthand testimony not to mention the testimony of 
> > other 
> > > > witnesses.
> > > >
> > > > etc. etc.
> > > >
> > > > Daniel
> > > > http://hpb.cc
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > 
> > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > 
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
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