Theos-Talk Archives (March 2006 Message tt01403)

Written text has it's limitations.  And so do languages themselves 
for that matter.

Vince

--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Cass Silva <silva_cass@...> wrote:
>
> I suppose it is a bit like bible coding.  Rather than reading the 
entire text, plug in only to the anomolies.   After all, words are 
merely thoughts on paper.
> 
> Cass
> 
> Vincent <vblaz2004@...> wrote: Cass-
> 
> Metaphysical revelation perhaps?
> 
> Vince
> 
> --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Cass Silva  wrote:
> >
> > She used the master scanner.  Chuck will get it!
> > Cass
> > 
> > Vincent  wrote: Cass-
> > 
> > What specific math are you referring to?  Translational errors 
or 
> > otherwise?
> > 
> > Vince
> > 
> > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Cass Silva  wrote:
> > >
> > > She did the math
> > > Cass
> > > 
> > > Vincent  wrote: M Sufilight-
> > > 
> > > Good advice.  No assuming then.  An easy snare to be sure.  
And 
> > all 
> > > too common when conversations are relegated to mere text, and 
> not 
> > > conducted face to face where genuine emotions are more visible.
> > > 
> > > I'm curious.  How did Blavatsky arrive at the number 64,000?  
> And 
> > > how precisely is such a thing relevant, as the same errors 
occur 
> > in 
> > > the translation of any text?
> > > 
> > > Most Christians specifically assert that the Bible is inerrant 
> > only 
> > > in it's original manuscripts (namely the Old Testament Hebrew 
> and 
> > > New Testament Greek), and that translations outside of the 
> > original 
> > > languages are inherently prone to errors.  There is a small 
> > minority 
> > > of Christians who assert that the English 1611 King James 
> Version 
> > is 
> > > also infallibly translated, but such isn't a very wide view 
> among 
> > > common Christians of today.
> > > 
> > > And who is Master Morya?  A living teacher or a spirit guide?
> > > 
> > > Vince
> > > 
> > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "M. Sufilight" 
> > > theosophy@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hallo Vince and all,
> > > > 
> > > > My views are:
> > > > 
> > > > Let us not go around - assuming - what views the other 
emailer 
> > has 
> > > here at 
> > > > Theos-talk.
> > > > If you would go back and read some of my earlier emails,
> > > > I think we will have to agree, that one could assume, the
> > > > same as you did in the below.
> > > > I will however encourage you not to assume too much at this 
> > place.
> > > > 
> > > > But as I have said to others.
> > > > I do care, you know...
> > > > I will always be there to if possible be of help to you...
> > > > 
> > > > Let us all be happy...
> > > > 
> > > > The 64.000 mistakes was a quote from Blavatsky. Blavatsky
> > > > was a founder of the Theosophical Society.
> > > > Blavatsky was as you know one of the chelas (theosophical 
> > pupils) 
> > > of Master 
> > > > Morya.
> > > > 
> > > > A drawing of how Morya (or the creature) sometimes looks 
like 
> is 
> > > here.
> > > > Blavatsky was involved in the drawing, when it took place. 
> > > > http://www.blavatskyarchives.com/hpbphotos14.htm
> > > > And this is a - photo - of Damodar Mavalankar, 1884.
> > > > http://www.blavatskyarchives.com/hpbphotos20.htm
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > from
> > > > M. Sufilight with peace and love...
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > > > From: "Vincent" 
> > > > To: 
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 3:42 AM
> > > > Subject: Theos-World Re: Hi there, I'm Vince and I am new to 
> the 
> > > group
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > >M Sufilight-
> > > > >
> > > > > 64,000 mistakes in the Bible?  That sounds a little bit 
like
> > > > > overkill for your stance.  There's only 30,000 verses.  If 
> > you're
> > > > > talking about translational inaccuracies, then such is 
true 
> > for 
> > > any
> > > > > language to language translation, sort of like when you 
> > translate
> > > > > english to spanish or vice versa.  You'll have one or two
> > > > > translational errors per sentence on a simple restaurant 
> menu 
> > or
> > > > > government sign.  But who cares?  Maybe you don't speak 
the 
> > > original
> > > > > language.
> > > > >
> > > > > Now before you start a blood fued with me, please 
understand 
> > > that I
> > > > > am not one of those fundamentalists who believe that the 
> Bible 
> > is
> > > > > infallible.  I've not thrown any boomerangs at you.  If 
you 
> > have
> > > > > difficulty with the fact that I read the Bible, or any 
other
> > > > > metaphysical text, then I'll have to leave that on you.  
> > > Ultimately,
> > > > > I prefer to rely on direct supernatural experience versus 
> what
> > > > > someone tells me.
> > > > >
> > > > > Vince
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "M. Sufilight" 
> > > > > theosophy@> wrote:
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Hallo Vincent and all,
> > > > >>
> > > > >> My views are:
> > > > >>
> > > > >> This might be helpful in understanding it all much better.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> The following excerpt from an article by Blavatsky, 1879 
> > > mentions,
> > > > > that
> > > > >> there are according to her knowledge more than 64.000 
> > mistakes 
> > > in
> > > > > the Bible.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> "NOT A CHRISTIAN"!
> > > > >> I have done; adding but one more word of advice to the 
> > Review. 
> > > In
> > > > > the last
> > > > >> quarter of the nineteenth century, when the latest 
> > international
> > > > > revision of
> > > > >> the Bible-that infallible and revealed Word of God!-
reveals 
> > > 64,000
> > > > >> mistranslations and other mistakes, it is not the 
> > Theosophists-a
> > > > > large
> > > > >> number of whose members are English patriots and men of 
> > > learning-
> > > > > but rather
> > > > >> the Christians who ought to beware of "wanton 
> aggressiveness"
> > > > > against people
> > > > >> of other creeds. Their boomerangs may fly back from some
> > > > > unexpected parabola
> > > > >> and hit the throwers.
> > > > >> http://www.blavatsky.net/blavatsky/arts/NotAChristian.htm
> > > > >>
> > > > >> What the Bible tells us about various persons are not 
quite 
> > true
> > > > >> according to the real events of the past.
> > > > >> Events, which Blavatsky said, that the Seeker after Truth 
> > might
> > > > > learn to
> > > > >> read in the
> > > > >> Akashic light, (- that is - the non-physical recordings 
of 
> > past
> > > > > events and
> > > > >> other issues.).
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Just some views.
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> from
> > > > >> M. Sufilight with peace and love...
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> ----- Original Message ----- 
> > > > >> From: "Vincent" 
> > > > >> To: 
> > > > >> Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 8:15 PM
> > > > >> Subject: Theos-World Re: Hi there, I'm Vince and I am new 
> to 
> > the
> > > > > group
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> > Steve-
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > Who specifically are the 'masters' and are they ethical?
> > > > >> > The 'masters' that I've found in written texts mostly 
go 
> > back 
> > > to
> > > > > the
> > > > >> > Bible.  I'm speaking of miracle workers such as Jesus, 
> > Moses 
> > > and
> > > > >> > Elijah, Peter and Paul.  Some of these are reported as 
> > having
> > > > > raised
> > > > >> > the dead or ascending itno heaven themselves.  
> Metaphysical
> > > > > masters.
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > But were these masters completely ethical?  The 
miracles 
> of 
> > > Moses
> > > > >> > were mostly of a destructive nature, bringing ten 
plagues 
> > on 
> > > the
> > > > >> > Egyptians, and perhaps ten more on his own Israelites.  
> > > Further,
> > > > > he
> > > > >> > and his immediate succussor Joshua were propagators of 
> > > genocide,
> > > > >> > exterminating six nationalities from the face of the 
> > earth.  
> > > And
> > > > > the
> > > > >> > very angels of heaven which backed him, according to 
> > biblical
> > > > >> > testimony, were also quite violent and genocidal.
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > Likewise Elijah, who reportedly ascended directly into 
> > heaven,
> > > > >> > bypassing physical death, also slew people with 
> > supernatural 
> > > fire
> > > > >> > from the sky.  Despite resurrecting a dead boy, 
according 
> > to 
> > > the
> > > > >> > scriptures.
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > Peter and Paul of the New Testament are also biblically 
> > > recorded
> > > > > as
> > > > >> > each having resurrected the dead, and yet enforced 
harsh 
> > > cultural
> > > > >> > legalisms on women in their day.
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > What precisely is a 'master' and are 'masters' ethical?
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > -
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > It may even be asserted that the gods of ancient 
> mythology 
> > may
> > > > >> > actually have been immortal beings that once walked the 
> > earth
> > > > > prior
> > > > >> > to recorded history as we have it today.  But did these
> > > > >> > ancient 'gods' also practice good ethics?  Or were some 
> of 
> > > them
> > > > >> > bloody and violent as well?
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > -
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > Now I suppose that there are different types of mastery 
> > > available
> > > > >> > within the human potential, each with their own 
> > jurisdictional
> > > > >> > spheres.  One is a master of accounting, another a 
master 
> at
> > > > > sales,
> > > > >> > another a master of corporate management, another a 
> master 
> > of
> > > > >> > artistry, literature or dance.  Still others are 
masters 
> of
> > > > > ethics
> > > > >> > but not wisdom, psychic mastery but not physical 
> > athleticism.
> > > > >> > Whatever it may be.
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > So again I ask: what precisely is a 'master'?  And a 
> master 
> > of
> > > > > what?
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > Vince
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Steven Levey  
> > > wrote:
> > > > >> >>
> > > > >> >> Vince
> > > > >> >>        When you mention "wholistic" regarding the fact 
> the 
> > TS
> > > > >> > includes other works besides HPBs, you raise an 
> interesting
> > > > > point.
> > > > >> >>       I was originally involved with the TS years ago, 
> and 
> > I
> > > > > felt
> > > > >> > as if I had found a mother-lode of metaphysical occult
> > > > > literature.
> > > > >> > and this is true. Over the years, however, I found my 
own 
> > > tastes
> > > > >> > changing from an open texture rather undisciplined 
sense 
> of
> > > > > study to
> > > > >> > a "way" of my own, and I began to eliminate texts 
which, 
> to 
> > > me,
> > > > >> > where too indirect regarding the Path of individual 
work. 
> I
> > > > > wanted
> > > > >> > to know what I needed to actually do to know Wisdom, 
> which 
> > > wisdom
> > > > >> > was really neccesary for my own "awakening", and most
> > > > > importantly-
> > > > >> > what are the Masters of Wisdom. I found that some texts 
> were
> > > > >> > concerned with the fundemental teachings of the ancient 
> > > wisdom,
> > > > >> > without concern for the author, just the learning of the
> > > > > student. I
> > > > >> > found that many were not and made claims of visions and
> > > > > knowledge,
> > > > >> > which seemed to me, to jump ahead of what I could 
verify 
> as 
> > > real.
> > > > >> > So, I kept finding myself going back to the fundemental 
> > > teachings
> > > > >> > regarding the neccesary changes I had to make in me, 
with 
> > > which I
> > > > >> > would know
> > > > >> >>  what is real and what is not. My biggest problem was 
> > always 
> > > me
> > > > >> > and my  lack of patience. I needed to rid myself of the 
> so-
> > > called
> > > > >> > normal time sense of people in our time, which prompts 
us 
> to
> > > > > quickly
> > > > >> > and prematurely aquire powers before we understand what 
> > power
> > > > > is. I
> > > > >> > kept finding that some few texts want the student to 
find 
> > out
> > > > > what a
> > > > >> > human being is, the knowledge of which I thought I had, 
> > being
> > > > >> > preumptious and shallow. Which really means, that for a 
> > > shallow
> > > > >> > nature to aquire power would be dangerous.
> > > > >> >>        Therefore, I kept finding myself being 
attracted 
> > back 
> > > to
> > > > >> > HPB's writings, along with Patanjali, the Dalai Lama, 
and 
> > > other
> > > > >> > insightful Buddhist thinkers like Santideva, who deal 
in 
> > > ethical
> > > > >> > growth along side, but actually preceding, the 
> metaphysical
> > > > > study,
> > > > >> > for the sake of psychological balance. Their motive is 
> > > service as
> > > > >> > the key to finding out who you are and your capacities, 
> > while 
> > > an
> > > > >> > unbalanced study may still allow for selfishness, and 
> > misuse 
> > > of
> > > > >> > knowledge.
> > > > >> >>        Well, thats the Path of study for me, but it 
came 
> > > about
> > > > >> > through an open study of pretty much everything.
> > > > >> >>
> > > > >> >>   Steve
> > > > >> >>
> > > > >> >> Vincent  wrote:
> > > > >> >>   Steve-
> > > > >> >>
> > > > >> >> Actually, my primary intent for recently getting 
> involved 
> > > with
> > > > > the
> > > > >> >> Theosophical Society of Wheaton has mostly to do with 
> > having 
> > > a
> > > > >> > place
> > > > >> >> wherein I may freely believe what I already do, and 
> learn 
> > new
> > > > >> > things
> > > > >> >> of a metaphysical content as well.
> > > > >> >>
> > > > >> >> When I was formerly involved with Christian 
> fundamentalist
> > > > >> > churches,
> > > > >> >> I found myself judged and restricted whenever 
attempting 
> to
> > > > > bring
> > > > >> > up
> > > > >> >> metaphysical concepts in open discussion format. I was 
> told
> > > > > that I
> > > > >> >> was not being 'doctrinal', and that my metaphysical 
> > > experiences
> > > > >> >> were 'demonic', insofar as they were not strictly 
> aligned 
> > > with
> > > > >> >> Christian doctrine.
> > > > >> >>
> > > > >> >> However, my initial impression of the Theosophical 
> Society 
> > is
> > > > > that
> > > > >> >> it is accepting of a variety of religious traditions, 
> and 
> > not
> > > > >> > solely
> > > > >> >> specific to HPB's writings. It is more wholistic. 
Please 
> > > correct
> > > > >> >> me if I am wrong on this.
> > > > >> >>
> > > > >> >> Vince
> > > > >> >>
> > > > >> >> --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Steven Levey wrote:
> > > > >> >> >
> > > > >> >> > Ah Vince, that's a mighty deep rational you have for 
> > what 
> > > you
> > > > >> > do.
> > > > >> >> Hopefully you will get from us exactly what you aught.
> > > > >> >> >
> > > > >> >> > Steve
> > > > >> >> >
> > > > >> >> > Vincent wrote:
> > > > >> >> > Steve-
> > > > >> >> >
> > > > >> >> > I appreciate your insight and your suggestion, and I 
> see 
> > > the
> > > > >> > value
> > > > >> >> > to it. It's just that at this specific time in my 
> life, 
> > my
> > > > > focus
> > > > >> >> > must be a little bit different. In other words, I've 
> > > already
> > > > >> >> poured
> > > > >> >> > many thousands of hours into various metaphysical 
> texts 
> > > over
> > > > > the
> > > > >> >> > last twenty years, and have therefore arrived at a 
very
> > > > > complex
> > > > >> >> and
> > > > >> >> > advanced metaphysical belief system as a result. At 
> this
> > > > > time, I
> > > > >> >> am
> > > > >> >> > undertaking the attempt to write a volume as large 
as 
> > > HPB's,
> > > > > and
> > > > >> >> > therefore cannot dedicate fully researching a brand 
> new 
> > > text.
> > > > >> >> >
> > > > >> >> > I suggest that there exist the roles of teachers 
whose
> > > > > specific
> > > > >> >> task
> > > > >> >> > is to dispense information to others, if they do not 
> > have 
> > > the
> > > > >> >> > immediate time and energy to gather it for 
themselves. 
> > I'm 
> > > not
> > > > >> >> > saying that direct readings of HPB lack value in any 
> way.
> > > > > That's
> > > > >> >> > just not where I'm at right now.
> > > > >> >> >
> > > > >> >> > Currently, I engage in trance conditioning through 
> > natural
> > > > >> >> > physiological disciplines, without the use of 
chemical
> > > > >> > modifiers.
> > > > >> >> > This means that I interact directly with spirit 
> entities,
> > > > > seeing
> > > > >> >> > them and hearing them when I enter into trance. And 
> this 
> > is
> > > > > the
> > > > >> >> > level from whence my writings will manifest 
> inspiration. 
> > I 
> > > am
> > > > >> > just
> > > > >> >> > curious to see what degree of alignment exists 
between 
> > > HPB's
> > > > >> >> > writings and my own belief system at this time, so 
I'd 
> > > like to
> > > > >> >> learn
> > > > >> >> > more through those gifted teachers and students of 
HPB.
> > > > >> >> >
> > > > >> >> > Vince
> > > > >> >> >
> > > > >> >> > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Steven Levey 
wrote:
> > > > >> >> > >
> > > > >> >> > > Vince
> > > > >> >> > >
> > > > >> >> > > I am aware of how daunting the very thickness of 
> these
> > > > >> >> > texts can appear, but I really think that you are 
doing
> > > > > yourself
> > > > >> > a
> > > > >> >> > great disservice, by not doing the study yourself, 
and
> > > > > expecting
> > > > >> >> > others to, sort of, hand it to you in some palatable 
> form
> > > > >> > intended
> > > > >> >> > just for you. This is a great deal like going to 
> church 
> > or
> > > > >> > temple
> > > > >> >> > and expecting the paid servent on the pulpit to do 
the 
> > same
> > > > >> > thing.
> > > > >> >> > > Now please, don't take this wrong, but an 
important 
> > > aspect
> > > > >> >> > of the philosophy of becoming a discriminating human 
> > being 
> > > and
> > > > >> >> > student, is, so that what you find for yourself will 
be
> > > > >> > something
> > > > >> >> > you can trust in. "We are all Gods", says the 
ancient 
> > > wisdom,
> > > > >> >> > or "You too can do what I have done" as Jesus says. 
In 
> > > other
> > > > >> >> words,
> > > > >> >> > we have what we need within us, we just have to 
flesh 
> it 
> > > out.
> > > > >> > That
> > > > >> >> > is the purpose of theosophical thought, not the 
> > > memorization
> > > > > of
> > > > >> >> > thick texts. But the study of them, and application 
of 
> > > what we
> > > > >> > see
> > > > >> >> > as true, brings rewards immediately, as the mind 
wakes 
> > up 
> > > to
> > > > > its
> > > > >> >> own
> > > > >> >> > powers of wisdom and discrimination.
> > > > >> >> > >
> > > > >> >> > > Steve
> > > > >> >> > >
> > > > >> >> > > Vincent wrote:
> > > > >> >> > > Steve-
> > > > >> >> > >
> > > > >> >> > > I'm just trying to understand what I can about 
> > Theosophy,
> > > > >> >> insofar
> > > > >> >> > as
> > > > >> >> > > it is new to me. HPB's writings are so extensive 
in 
> > such
> > > > > large
> > > > >> >> > > volumes that I'm honestly a little bit daunted as 
to 
> > > where
> > > > > to
> > > > >> >> > begin,
> > > > >> >> > > so I'm likely going to be relying on secondary 
> > > abridgments
> > > > > for
> > > > >> >> > > awhile. In other words, someone's probably going 
to 
> > have 
> > > to
> > > > >> >> teach
> > > > >> >> > > it to me in the form of abridged quotes, before I 
> get 
> > > into
> > > > >> >> > extensive
> > > > >> >> > > reading of the core volumes.
> > > > >> >> > >
> > > > >> >> > > Christians claim that the Bible contains 'absolute 
> > > truth',
> > > > >> > both
> > > > >> >> > > inerrant and infallible. But this then leaves 
those 
> > > portions
> > > > >> > of
> > > > >> >> > > universal truth concerning which we lack a firm 
and 
> > total
> > > > >> > grasp.
> > > > >> >> > > Namely 'occult' truth, or anything which has not 
been
> > > > > declared
> > > > >> >> to
> > > > >> >> > > be 'absolute truth' by the Christian community. 
Hence
> > > > >> > universal
> > > > >> >> > > truth may potentially be subdivided into categories
> > > > >> > of 'absolute
> > > > >> >> > > truth' and 'occult truth'. Of course, I don't 
> believe 
> > > that
> > > > > any
> > > > >> >> of
> > > > >> >> > > us really has a firm grasp on 'absolute truth' in 
> the 
> > > first
> > > > >> >> place,
> > > > >> >> > > insofar as our minds are mortal, and we commonly 
> have 
> > > errors
> > > > >> >> > > somewhere in every belief that we hold, whether 
> small 
> > or
> > > > >> > great.
> > > > >> >> > > Hence so many different biblical interpretations 
> among
> > > > >> >> Christians.
> > > > >> >> > >
> > > > >> >> > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Steven Levey 
> wrote:
> > > > >> >> > > >
> > > > >> >> > > > Vince-
> > > > >> >> > > >
> > > > >> >> > > > Your intution about the reason for the 
> term "Secret" 
> > in
> > > > > The
> > > > >> >> > > Secret Doctrine is somewhat correct, but, it is 
also 
> a 
> > > bit
> > > > > to
> > > > >> >> > quick
> > > > >> >> > > a judgement. I'm afraid you are going to have to 
> study 
> > > the
> > > > >> >> thing,
> > > > >> >> > to
> > > > >> >> > > get a really good idea about the use of her terms. 
> > > However,
> > > > > in
> > > > >> >> > doing
> > > > >> >> > > so, I found it wise to read HPB in a thorough way 
to 
> > > begin
> > > > > to
> > > > >> >> > > undestand her motivation. By this I mean, read The 
> Key 
> > to
> > > > >> >> > Theosophy,
> > > > >> >> > > and study The Voice of the Silence, as well, or 
> > something
> > > > > like
> > > > >> >> > that.
> > > > >> >> > > Or, pick up one of her collected writtings of 
shorter
> > > > >> > articles,
> > > > >> >> or
> > > > >> >> > > the Panarion. Mostly all of these are available at 
> the
> > > > > Public
> > > > >> >> > > Library, but definately on-line or in Theosophy 
> Lodges 
> > of
> > > > >> >> > different
> > > > >> >> > > types.
> > > > >> >> > > >
> > > > >> >> > > > Good Searching-Steve
> > > > >> >> > > >
> > > > >> >> > > > Vincent Blazina wrote:
> > > > >> >> > > > Perry:
> > > > >> >> > > >
> > > > >> >> > > > Thanks for the welcome. The Jehovah's Witnesses 
> that 
> > > you
> > > > >> > refer
> > > > >> >> > > also seem to have some narrow biblical 
> > interpretations, 
> > > much
> > > > >> >> like
> > > > >> >> > > Christian fundamentalists. I'm curious about what 
> some 
> > of
> > > > > the
> > > > >> >> > > similarities and differences are between the Bible 
> and 
> > > the
> > > > >> >> Secret
> > > > >> >> > > Doctrine. Why is the Secret Doctrine considered to 
be
> > > > > secret?
> > > > >> >> Does
> 
> === message truncated ===
> 
> 		
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>