Theos-Talk Archives (March 2006 Message tt01321)

Cass

Jerry Hejka-Ekins <jjhe@charter.net> wrote: Dear Cass,

You asked me to address your question.  I will, but I have to take the=20
long way around.  So please be patient.  In the end, I think you will=20
see why I answered in this way:

The problem lies in our lack of understanding of late classical Greek=20
literature.   The Greeks had no problem distinguishing between=20
Herodotus' histories and Homer's Odyssey.  The former was an account of=20
what Herodotus saw and accounts of wars he recorded. The latter is a=20
hero's journey of a man who becomes a god.  To put it another way,=20
Aristotle, in his "Poetics" distinguished between "logos" and "mythos." =
=20
Logos represents the bare information, while the mythos gives it=20
meaning.  Where is the truth that has real meaning?  It is in the=20
mythos.  So, even though the Odyssey is a fictional work, it represents=20
deeper truths.  For the ancient Greeks, spiritual truth was transmitted=20
by Bards through the telling of sacred stories--what we today call=20
myths.  Today, our Christian culture has taught us to regard myths as=20
lies, as false stories.  For the Greeks, they once represented exactly=20
the opposite.=20

So the logos of the Jesus story might be: A man was born.  He became a=20
Rabbi.  He died.

The mythos goes like this: There was a man, the only begotten son of=20
god, born of a virgin, and descended from the house of David.  He=20
ministered and healed people for a year and was crucified on a cross so=20
that all who believes in him will be saved.=20

All of those mythic elements had deep meaning to the Greeks:

Son of god, as was Heracles and Asclepius.
Born of a virgin: As were all of god's heroes.
Descended from the House of David:  A reference to Judaism, so that he=20
can have hereditary claim to kingship (Messiah).
Ministered and healed: Because heroes are wise or healers or both.  The=20
great god or god-men healers of the time included Asclepius and Serapis.
For a year: representing the course of the sun god Apollo, whom Jesus=20
was identified in the early church.
Crucified on the cross: The cross was a Greek and Roman solar symbol=20
before it was taken over by the Christians.
So that all who believes in him will be saved: The original theological=20
teaching of the early Christians.

Other mythical elements include:
He turned water into wine: An allusion to Bacchus, who did the same.
Rode into Jerusalem on the foal of a ass, or on a Colt: another allusion=20
to Bacchus.
Walked on water: allusion to Neptune.
Healed the sick, made the blind see: Allusion to Asclepius and Serapis.

So where is the historical Jesus? He is neither in the mythos nor the=20
logos.   "Historical" originally derived from the Greek and denoted=20
inquiry.   Therefore, to find the historical Jesus, we have to look=20
outside of the myth find accounts.  Unfortunately, there aren't any.=20=20
The Josephus account has been proven to be a Christian interpolation.=20=20
Tacitus' account of Nero blaming and persecuting the Christians for the=20
burning of Rome is very likely a later addition.  Philo the Jew was a=20
contemporary of the Biblical Jesus but does not mention a Jesus nor the=20
Jewish-Christians, though he thoroughly accounts for every Jewish sect.=20
The Roman have no record of him.=20

So, it is from this way of viewing things that HPB can express doubt=20
about the historicity of the person in the gospel accounts.  She never=20
says that the historical Jesus did not exist. She only says, truthfully,=20
that we honestly don't know anything for sure about him, even if he did=20
in fact exist.  So, she is leaving it open to the interpretation that=20
the Biblical Jesus is no more or less historical than the Heracles and=20
Asclepius of myth.  I have an old Roman coin here with a bust of Nero on=20
the obverse and a depiction of Heracles on the reverse.  The inscription=20
on the reverse says: HERAKLES SOTER: Heracles, Savior.=20

There are a lot of historical people who have been proposed as a model=20
upon which the Jesus story evolved.  Apollonius is one of them.  The=20
Jesus story could have been formulated upon distant memories of several=20
people and events.   We just don't know.=20

What we do know is that in literary style, the Gospel stories have all=20
the literary trappings of Greek myth.=20

Hope this helps.

Best wishes,
Jerry









Cass Silva wrote:

>Dear Morten and all
>I am confused about Jesus.  HPB places Jesus as a historical fact, yet als=
o says, if he in fact existed?  A Rosicrucian friend of mind believes that =
Apollonius of Tyana was the true world teacher, and believes that Jesus, th=
e Carpenter is a fiction of the gnostics.
>
>Cass
>
>"M. Sufilight"  wrote: Hallo Vince and all,
>
>My views are:
>
>
>There are the Seekers questions about spiritual or esoterical matters.
>These question are in fact not always easily answered.
>One reason being that Truth as such about such matters have to be experien=
ced on a higher level
>rather than digested by ordinary intellect or by emotional reactions.
>
>It from time to time happens, that the Seeker somehow finds himself or her=
self to WANT to
>know about something.
>And another issue is what the Seeker actually esoterically NEED to know ab=
out.
>Sometimes there is a big difference there.
>Ignorance about what one actually Needs to know about
>when viewed from an high spiritual or esoterical level is
>a problem the Seekers often faces.
>
>Questions which for instance request, that one answers by giving more than=
 64.000
>examples of the faults in the Bible - are perhaps not that important.
>And yet it might be so.
>Now, if I was a master, I could most certainly create a rather huge email =
or a number of emails
>showing the more than 64.000 faults in the Bible. The question is also, wh=
ether
>i would do that, if there was a different and more important
>need to attend to.
>
>Some of the faults have been written about by Blavatsky herself.
>I have personally never read a book showing all the faults.=20
>It is also important, that The Liberal Catholic Church (LCC) or TS Adyar h=
ave never created=20
>an official scripture showing that. They completely seem to ignore this im=
portant fact.
>One shall know people on their fruits. But, perhaps the famous author Dan =
Brown is=20
>planning a book on this, who knows. :-)
>Actually such a book could be a devastating blow to the most narrowminded =
of the Catholic's=20
>and other similar creeds. Truth has always been a difficult task to the=20
>Church of Rome it seems.
>
>If you really think that you NEED to know about all these faults.
>You could search the Internet, or elsewhere.
>Perhaps Dallas or others connected to Blavatskt.net have more to
>offer you on this than I am at the moment.
>
>If I only had 1-2.000 faults to write down.
>I would publish a book about it - or perhaps offer the script to Dan Brown=
.
>Just to see, what would happen. :-)
>
>I think, that some of the scholars with a theosophical or esoterical leani=
ng
>could easily find 1-2.000 faults.
>
>Here is one of the more wellknown faults.
>Try this:
>The Secret Doctrine, Vol. 3.=20
>http://www.theosophical.ca/SecDoctrine3B.htm ( Page 199)
>Not everyone accept this volumes content though.=20
>
>Try original THE SECRET DOCTRINE on more information:
>http://www.phx-ult-lodge.org/SDVolume2.htm=20
>(This is the Original online version. Although it is Without the Cover.)
>
>- - - - - - -
>A Greek Orthodox, and Evangelical, and a Jesuit are doing an archeological=
 dig in Jerusalem. They come across a Tomb that says, in Latin, Greek, and =
Hebrew, "Here lies Jesus of Nazareth, who claimed he was King of the Jews, =
and was executed at Passover under Pontius Pilate".
>
>Excited by the find, they open the tomb, only to be horrified to find a cr=
ucified body.
>
>"Oh my goodness," says the Orthodox. "The Church and all the good it does =
is based on a false event."
>
>"Oh my goodness," says the Evangelical. "The Bible, which has guided by en=
tire life, is nothing but a lie."
>
>"Oh my goodness," says the Jesuit. "There really was a Jesus."
>
>
>
>
>from
>M. Sufilight with peace and love...
>
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