From: "krsanna" <timestar@timestar.org>
Reply-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Theos-World Re: Adyar's "Irrelevancy" and Earth Axis
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 00:35:20 -0000
Carlos -- As regards the relevancy of old people, one of best
friends for 16 years is 92 years old this year. She was born in
1914, and I admire her greatly. I once made a special trip to a
neighboring state to set up her computer to get her on the internet,
so we could stay in touch.
Energy and commitment behind words are what make make a difference.
Without energy and commitment, words are empty symbols.
I have no idea how "verticalization of the Earth Planetary Axis" is
pertinent to my comments. This looks like a new idea that you are
introducing. The only context in which I have ever discussed the
earth's vertical axis is that the tilt of the planet varies by at
least 5 degrees over long periods of time. As regards
communications systems, during the last solar maximum, I forecast,
in advance of the events, several 13-day windows in which satellite
and computer communications would likely be affected by solar flares
and coronal mass ejections. By the way, my forecasts were accurate
on on several occasions.
Best regards,
Krsanna
--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "carlosaveline cardoso aveline"
<carlosaveline@...> wrote:
>
>
> Krsanna,
>
> 1) Everything which has a heart is relevant.
>
> 2) Irrelevancy is in the eye of the beholder.
>
> 3) Physical plane groups of people are not only physical plane.
Real people
> interact in all of their seven principles, and "it takes seven
principles to
> have a human being". At the Internet, you have a restriction, a
certain
> lack of commitment, while you also have important advantages, of
course.
> That's the relevance not only of Adyar, but every theosophical
group, lodge
> or institution, from Adyar through Tacoma Lodge (until recently,
part of
> Adyar).
>
> 4) Old people are relevant, too, as you will see when you are in
your 70s
> and 80s.
>
> 5) On the other hand, you must know the limitations of Internet.
>
> 6) Its isolation of individuals and its stimulation to wild
individualism is
> useful to dominant powers pre-empt political changes nowadays, and
to
> de-politicize citizens.
>
> 7) Finally, have you thought about the consequences which a
sudden
> verticalization of the Earth Planetary Axis would have on the
satelite
> communications such as Internet and the like? The process from
here to 2022
> may not be entirely lineal and "under control", as the USA State
> Derpartment well knows.
>
> Best regards, Carlos.
>
>
>
>
>
> >From: "krsanna" <timestar@...>
> >Reply-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> >To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> >Subject: Theos-World Adyar's irrelevancy
> >Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 13:34:16 -0000
> >
> >Carlos -- It is true, as you say, ultimately, "there is no
> >real "separation" between Adyar and non-Adyar groups/institutions
at
> >the inner level." This does not account for the demographics of
> >Theosophists when viewed as organizations.
> >
> >A Young Theosophists is defined as someone under the age of 35.
I'd
> >like to hear back from others as to the percentage of Young
> >Theosophists in their organizations. One of our members was 30
when
> >we started our study group in 2004, and was shocked to get an
> >invitation to join the Young Theosophists.
> >
> >"These guys think I'm young?" A Theosophist born in 1976 is now
30
> >years old and grew up with computer games, "Star Wars," and UFO
> >reports on television. Experienced (matured) Theosophists are a
> >different culture than the "experienced" or mature Theosophists
over
> >the age of 65.
> >
> >While the mature Theosophists are one on the inner level with the
> >younger generation, the older ones will disappear a lot sooner and
> >leave the existing Young Theosophists -- however few there are --
to
> >carry on the work. My Young Theosophist in Missoula suggested to
> >our study group that we create a web site that will speak in the
> >terms of people his age.
> >
> >He loves HPB too, but he wants to animate the images she describes
> >in the Proem and Stanzas for a web site we are making. He grew up
> >with the internet and regularly participates in "nerd fests" where
> >his friends get together and play computer games. He lives in
> >culturally different terms than many older Theosophists.
> >
> >The internet by itself has done much to make Adyar irrelevant.
I'm
> >more interested in the terms of the Young Theosophists that I am
in
> >trying to rescue the elder generation. The older generation will
> >disappear and return to seek truth in new cultural terms.
> >
> >The National Lodge at Wheaton started its FIRST internet list
about
> >2 years ago with the question, "Should Christianity be saved?" It
> >was based on an article explaining that many people, including
> >merchants, are shying away from the word, "Christmas," and,
instead,
> >tend to use the term "Holiday."
> >
> >This is a sign of changing times that many eagerly anticipate. It
> >is for this reason that I say Adyar is irrelevant. The market for
> >what Adyar's offering is disappearing. The world has changed and
> >many (older) Theosophists are not changing rapidly enough to keep
> >pace.
> >
> >A new generation will take the helm, possibly in an internet
> >environment, and change the way Theosophy is addressed in the
> >culture. I'm looking forward to it. Animations of the Proem will
> >be fun.
> >
> >Best regards,
> >Krsanna
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > theosophists in general and humanity, too. The Pasadena
Society,
> >the
> > > Edmonton Theos. Society, the ULT, Adyar TS, other smaller
groups,
> >all are
> > > relevant and each can make a difference.
> >
> >
> >--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "carlosaveline cardoso aveline"
> ><carlosaveline@> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Krsanna,
> > >
> > > 1) Adyar may be irrelevant from one viewpoint, but perhaps more
> >than 80
> > > percent of theosophists world wide belong to it and asre more
or
> >less
> > > trapped. "Souls are at stake", as one Master wrote in a Letter.
> >Souls, in a
> > > way, are far from irrelevant.
> > >
> > > 2) The non-Adyar groups and institutions are far from being
> > > above-imperfections, and many of the Adyar mistakes can be
found
> >in
> > > non-Adyar groups, even if a smaller degree.
> > >
> > > 3) This happens because there is no real "separation" betwwen
> >Adyar and
> > > non-Adyar groups/institutions at the inner level --- we are
all in
> >the same
> > > boat, theosophists in general and humanity, too. The Pasadena
> >Society, the
> > > Edmonton Theos. Society, the ULT, Adyar TS, other smaller
groups,
> >all are
> > > relevant and each can make a difference. I hope you agree with
> >that.
> > > Universal Brotherhood is the link between us and the Adyar TS.
If
> >we are
> > > solidary with the Tacoma TS, that is because TSA in relevant.
Each
> >Lodge
> > > counts. Each person, each soul, each Higher Manas is relevant,
in
> >a way,
> > > which does not mean you are "wrong" in what you wrote -- I am
just
> >bringing
> > > a complementary view of things.
> > >
> > > 4) Can you quote from the Bowen Notes on the brain?
> > >
> > >
> > > Best regards, Carlos.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >From: "krsanna" <timestar@>
> > > >Reply-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> > > >To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> > > >Subject: Theos-World Re: To Krsanna: On Seeking Truth
> > > >Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 00:43:48 -0000
> > > >
> > > >Carlos -- A number of HPB's comments -- and the Bowen Notes --
> > > >regarding the brain are consistent with the research on the
brain
> > > >that's been done only in recent decades. A very different
model
> >of
> > > >the brain was in place in the 19th century. I wrote about a
> > > >fantastic book by UCLA research psychiatrist, Jeffrey
Schwartz,
> > > >entitled, "The Mind & The Brain" in the last few weeks.
Schwartz
> > > >has applied Buddhist techniques to research that hadn't even
> >started
> > > >until the 1960's and gets good results.
> > > >
> > > >Several things I've learned about optimum use of the body
coincide
> > > >very well with HPB's knowledge, such as her discussion of the
> > > >brain. The "Bowen Notes" mention that "every conscious mental
> > > >picture formed means change and destruction of the atoms of
the
> > > >brain" is a match with recent research. This principle is now
> >used
> > > >in rehabilitation for stroke victims.
> > > >
> > > >I do not assume that everything coming from Adyar is false;
more
> > > >correctly, Adyar is increasing irrelevant. Adyar hitched its
> >wagon
> > > >to a paternalistic 19th century mindset that elected to
undermine
> > > >HPB for the sake of propriety. The world has outgrown Adyar
and
> > > >what's left of greatest value is HPB's work.
> > > >
> > > >Krsanna
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "carlosaveline cardoso
aveline"
> > > ><carlosaveline@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Dear Krsanna,
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks a lot.
> > > > >
> > > > > 1) Most of HPB's Esoteric Teachings, that is, her
teachings to
> >the
> > > >Esoteric
> > > > > School, have been published already by Boris de Zirkoff in
the
> > > >volume XII of
> > > > > her "Collected Writings".
> > > > >
> > > > > Before that, they had been published with some small
changes in
> > > >the Annie
> > > > > Besant's version of the "Secrec Doctrine", by 1897.
> > > > >
> > > > > (For that, Besant broke her own personal vows of
secrecy!!!)
> > > > >
> > > > > Since then, Adyar ES uses much more CWL's, Annie Besant's
and
> >C.
> > > > > JInarajadasa's texts then texts by HPB -- its founder!
> > > > >
> > > > > 2) HPB's oral teachings to the very Inner Group of the
Esoteric
> > > >School have
> > > > > also been published, by "Point Loma Publications", San
Dioego,
> >CA,
> > > >1985.
> > > > > First edition, 1985, better than the second one.
(Title: "The
> > > >Inner Group
> > > > > Teachings".)
> > > > >
> > > > > 3) We are dealing with human beings. Perhaps the same
persons
> >who
> > > >seem to
> > > > > doubt the authenticity of the Bowen Notes are among the
brave
> > > >souls who
> > > > > preserved HPB's main teachings up to our time. Perhaps
they are
> > > >right in
> > > > > doubting it. If not, we should take into consideration that
> >while
> > > >working
> > > > > under consistent currents of attack and slander, many
people
> >will
> > > >develop
> > > > > psychological defense-mechanisms. One of such possible
> >defense-
> > > >mechanisms
> > > > > may be the strong feeling that "everything coming from
Adyar
> >is,
> > > >in
> > > > > principle, FALSE". There are delicate magnetic issue
related
> >to
> > > >this, too.
> > > > > Because "everything coming from Adyar has indeed
something of
> > > >Adyar's
> > > > > magnetism" -- as I believe.
> > > > >
> > > > > These points are very brief --- I apologize for the
> >telegraphic
> > > >style...
> > > > >
> > > > > But-- may the dialogue go on!
> > > > >
> > > > > (My main point as to the Bowen Notes is that their content
is
> > > >consistent
> > > > > with HPB's teachings. The same as to the 1900 Letter --
but I
> >only
> > > >say that
> > > > > because I count on the generosity of those brave and loyal
> >souls
> > > >who may
> > > > > disagree from my view. I would never "fight" over this.
Only -
> >-
> > > >sincere and
> > > > > honest diversity of views enriches the movement... and it
> > > >exercises our
> > > > > mutual tolerance and modesty. We are all but students in
their
> > > >search, and
> > > > > helping each other with their views!)
> > > > >
> > > > > Best regards, Carlos.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >From: "krsanna" <timestar@>
> > > > > >Reply-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > >To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > >Subject: Theos-World Re: WHEN TRUTH IS A LIE
> > > > > >Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 14:13:12 -0000
> > > > > >
> > > > > >It is unfortunate for modern students that HPB did not
reveal
> > > > > >informatmion given to her Esoteric Section, on whom she
> >relied to
> > > > > >guide the TS, to Theosophists at large. Bowen was a
member
> >of the
> > > > > >Esoteric Section and was with HPB during the last weeks
of her
> > > >life.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >How would Theosophists know what HPB was teaching the
Esoteric
> > > > > >Section, since their literature was not made public?
Bowen
> > > > > >mentioned HPB's sense of urgency in teaching the Esoteric
> >Section
> > > >in
> > > > > >her last weeks, and a sense of urgency is conveyed in the
> > > > > >letter, "Why I Do Not Return To India."
> > > > > >
> > > > > >After sending the letter to India to be distributed among
> > > > > >Indians, "for some reason," it was not distributed by
Olcott
> >and
> > > > > >other leaders of the Indian Section. This is certainly a
> >measure
> > > >of
> > > > > >the opposition in India to Theosophy as HPB taught it.
> >Bowen, as
> > > >a
> > > > > >member of the Esoteric Section with Blavatsky in the last
> >weeks of
> > > > > >her life, was in a better position to know what she
taught the
> > > > > >Esoteric Section that was not available to other
Theosophists.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Carlos, who are these people that are willing to accept as
> >fact
> > > >the
> > > > > >whispers of a cabal who opposed HPB and deny the
testimony of
> > > > > >trusted students who stayed with her in the Esoteric
Section
> >until
> > > > > >the end? What was the motive of those in India that
failed to
> > > > > >distribute her letter to Theosophists in India?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >The "take-over" of Blavatsky's Theosophical Society in
India
> >was
> > > >all
> > > > > >but complete one year before her death. The persons
present
> > > > > >throughout the dismissal of Blavatsky's importance to
> >Theosophy
> > > >were
> > > > > >Olcott and Besant.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Olcott is the overlooked figure that was continuously
> >involved in
> > > > > >efforts to undermine HPB's authority, working as he did
as a
> >jolly
> > > > > >good fellow to keep the opposition against HPB off his own
> >back.
> > > > > >Olcott worked to protect his own rear. The success of his
> > > > > >socialable betrayal is seen today in the organizations he
left
> > > > > >behind, which includes the American Section created after
> >HPB's
> > > > > >death.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Best regards,
> > > > > >Krsanna
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "carlosaveline cardoso
> >aveline"
> > > > > ><carlosaveline@> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Dear Krsanna,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I also have a general, unfortunately vague recollection
> >that
> > > >there
> > > > > >are
> > > > > > > dedicated HPB students who doubt not only the
authenticity
> >of
> > > >the
> > > > > >Bowen
> > > > > > > Notes, but also the authenticity of her Diagram of
> >Meditation.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Yet this is not a big deal. Examining both texts we
will
> >see
> > > >both
> > > > > >are
> > > > > > > consistent with H.P.B.'s writings.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The Bowen Notes but stress and underline some basic
points
> >she
> > > >had
> > > > > >made in
> > > > > > > several places, the Three Fundamental Propositions
above
> >all.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I would say the same as to the 1900 Letter, which is
rather
> > > > > >similar to the
> > > > > > > so-called and fundamental "Letter from the Maha-
Chohan"
> >(in
> > > >fact
> > > > > >it is but
> > > > > > > a report on the Maha-Chohan's view of the TS).
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > And the 1900 Letter also anticipates all the mistakes
A.
> >Besant
> > > > > >would do in
> > > > > > > the following 33 years: that why its main sentences
were
> >kept
> > > > > >hidden and
> > > > > > > censored by A. Besant, C. Jinarajadasa and their
> >successors.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I guess the tendency to reject there three documents
may be
> > > > > >associated to a
> > > > > > > feeling that "everything which comes from Adyar is, in
> > > >principle,
> > > > > >false".
> > > > > > > There are strong reasons for such a feeling, of
course,
> >but
> > > > > >whenever
> > > > > > > possible things should be examined case-by-case and
> >CONTENTS of
> > > > > >documents
> > > > > > > should be evaluated to see if they are consistent or
not
> >with
> > > >the
> > > > > > > HPB/Masters teaching.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I am not saying that the origin these documents is
> > > >authentic; I
> > > > > >am saying
> > > > > > > that their content is consistent with their being
possibly
> > > > > >authentic. And
> > > > > > > the content, and the usefulness of things, is often
more
> > > > > >important than
> > > > > > > their outward form or origin.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Best regards, Carlos.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >From: "krsanna" <timestar@>
> > > > > > > >Reply-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > >To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > >Subject: Theos-World Re: WHEN TRUTH IS A LIE
> > > > > > > >Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 05:16:20 -0000
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >Bart -- I'm surprised that you would settle for
casting
> >doubt
> > > >but
> > > > > > > >not proving. Let me know when you find something
> >definitive.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >Best regards,
> > > > > > > >Krsanna
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Bart Lidofsky
<bartl@>
> > > >wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Ah! I found what I was looking for. It was
more
> > > >casting
> > > > > > > >doubt than
> > > > > > > > > proving false, but here's an indirect ref:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > http://www.theos-
> > > >talk.com/archives/200306/tt00137.html
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Bart Lidofsky wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > You are right; I was hoping that somebody
> >here might
> > > > > >know
> > > > > > > >more about
> > > > > > > > > > it. I will find out for sure tomorrow, however.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Bart
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > krsanna wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >>Bart -- Can you provide an authority for that
> > > >citation. "I
> > > > > > > >heard...
> > > > > > > > > >>[somewhere, sometimes]" doesn't do you justice.
I'm
> > > >sure you
> > > > > > > >can
> > > > > > > > > >>come up with something better than that.
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >>Best regards,
> > > > > > > > > >>Krsanna
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >>--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Bart Lidofsky
> ><bartl@>
> > > > > >wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >>>krsanna wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>Cass -- I posted the "Bowen Notes" taken from
> >meetings
> > > >with
> > > > > > > >HPB
> > > > > > > > > >>>>shortly before her death. Best regards,
Krsanna
> > > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > > > >>> I thought I heard something about the Bowen
> >Notes
> > > > > >being
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >>fraudulent; I
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >>>will have to check up on this.
> > > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > > > >>> Bart
> > > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >>Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > >
>_________________________________________________________________
> > > > > > > Copa 2006: Já está na hora de saber o que é
> > > >`Freundschaftsspiel'
> > > > > >Clique
> > > > > > > aqui! http://copa.br.msn.com/extra/dicionario/
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> >_________________________________________________________________
> > > > > Com o MSN Spaces você divide seu blog, suas fotos, sua
lista de
> > > >música e
> > > > > muito mais com seus amigos! Crie já o seu espaço online e
com
> >seus
> > > >amigos! E
> > > > > só entra no http://spaces.msn.com/
> > > > >
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