Dear Anand,
That is true. All organization have some corrupt people. But it is
the degree that matters. Adyar TS also has it, but less.
Since you have not personally worked with the leaders and members of any
Theosophical Organizations except Adyar, you have no first hand
experience from which to make such an evaluation. Why do you speak of
such things that you yourself do not know?
My judgement is Pasadena TS or any other organization, except Adyar
TS, was never considered as Theosophical Society by the Masters.
Have you studied the ES teaching of other Theosophical organizations? Do
you know individuals who have been trained in the ES of other
organizations?
Masters considered Adyar TS as only TS founded by Them.
Did a Master tell you this?
So other organizations will come and get vanished.
As so the Adyar TS is also vanishing.
ES was closed by Pasadena
TS because it was never Masters' organization.
Did a Master tell you this?
Adyar TS continued because it has Masters' blessing.
Or the Master fled in disgust to leave it to die with the rest of the
Theosophical Organizations. Who are you to say which is the correct
interpretation?
Adyar TS is also not in best
condition and I would expect it to improve in some areas.
Fellowship among their own members and altruism to all might be two
areas they could work on.
But it will continue as Masters have blessed it and will continue to work
through it.
Do you know this from the Masters?
Best,
Jerry
Anand Gholap wrote:
--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Jerry Hejka-Ekins <jjhe@...>
wrote:
Dear Anand,
What is your conclusion after studying this subject.
My conclusion is that mistakes were made on both sides and a lot of pain
could have been avoided. My other conclusion is that whenever there is
money, property and influence, there are always individuals trying to
keep control of it and others trying to get control of it. This seems to
be universal--no organization is immune to this dynamic.
That is true. All organization have some corrupt people. But it is
the degree that matters. Adyar TS also has it, but less.
If you have digital copies, send me or copy those things here.
I'm afraid that Theosophical History is a copyrighted scholarly
journal. My position as an associate editor does not give me the
liberty to copy and post articles from it on the Internet. I am sure
that the Adyar Library receives a subscription to it, and you will be
able to go through the articles there. If not, I will try to dig
through the back issues and find the articles and make a copy for you.
But I will have to work it in between other projects.
There is no need of that. I will get it in future, it is not urgent.
Well, a lot of things can be made of Long's actions. But you must keep
in mind just what power the ES represented. What I am saying is that
certain individuals (a very small number), who were also in the ES, were
responsible for recognizing and affirming the successor. Purucker had
given them the necessary training and knowledge so that they would be
able to recognize his successor. These individuals did not recognize
Conger, Hartley or Long, because none of them gave the required signal.
So, one could argue that the elimination of the ES was also the
elimination of those who opposed these leaders. In the long run, the
consensus has been that the elimination of the ES was a good thing.
Emmett Small (who was the ES Secretary and opposed Conger etc.) remarked
to me on many occasions that eliminating the ES was a wise move and
ought to be eliminated in all Theosophical Organizations. So, in this
case, individuals on both sides who were in management ultimately agreed
on this point.
My judgement is Pasadena TS or any other organization, except Adyar
TS, was never considered as Theosophical Society by the Masters.
Masters considered Adyar TS as only TS founded by Them. So other
organizations will come and get vanished. ES was closed by Pasadena
TS because it was never Masters' organization. Adyar TS continued
because it has Masters' blessing. Adyar TS is also not in best
condition and I would expect it to improve in some areas. But it
will continue as Masters have blessed it and will continue to work
through it.
AG
Anand Gholap wrote:
Dear Jerry,
Regarding the Purucker-Conger-Hartley-Long
situation, I have in my archives thousands of unpublished
documents including letters, minutes of meetings, diary entries etc.
concerning this sequence of events. I have also, over the years,
personally
interviewed many of the people involved concerning it, including
Emmett Small, Kirby van Mater, and Judith Tyberg.
What is your conclusion after studying this subject.
If you ever come to the
United States, you are welcome to visit us, examine the
documents,and come to your own conclusions.
I would like to visit and see the documents and other good work
you
are doing.
In the mean time, there is in the back issues of Theosophical
History an article on Conger by Alan Donant and a reply by Kenneth
Small which addresses many of the issues and should give you a feel
for the opposing views on this issue.
If you have digital copies, send me or copy those things here.
One would have to appreciate courage of James Long. It was not
easy
to boldly tell people that ES did not exist of which he was
head.
It must have been against popular ideas. Especially people in
management generally like to keep holding to power and they could
have opposed James Long when he removed that power.
AG
Anand Gholap wrote:
Dear Jerry,
Thanks for info. You said you found honest students in all
organization. That is true but point I wrote is different.
You wrote implying members belong to, are and should be loyal
to
their organization. Fact is there is no one organization to
which
serious students belong. Their goal should be to find the truth
from
all sources and organizations. Loyalty should be to truth and
it
should not be blind supporting of organizations of which a
person
is
member.
My question is still not answered. So it is being written
again.
Let us analyse facts given in message 30270.
Purucker wrote in ES circular
if within three months after
de Purucker's death or disappearance no-one could give "the
proper
proofs of
spiritual leadership", "then you will know that you have
failed".
No such leader or Outer Head of ES emerged, which meant
Pasadena
TS
failed, there was no ES after Purucker's death and so there was
no
Outer Head of ES in Pasadena TS. Despite these specific
directions,
in 1945, Conger claimed to be the Outer Head of the Esoteric
School
which had ceased to exist. He appointed William Hartley as
successor, cabinet rejected him and appointed James Long as
leader
in 1951. James Long closed ES and told that Purucker had already
stopped ES instructions in 1939. Does that mean Pasadena TS told
lies during 1939 to 1951 under the name of Esoteric
Instructions ?
AG
--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Jerry Hejka-Ekins <jjhe@>
wrote:
Dear Anand, Friends,
Let's put it this way: in 1895, those who felt lied to, sided
with
either Besant or Judge, depending upon who they believed was
telling the
truth. Accordingly, those who felt lied in in 1945-46, sided
with
either Conger, or with the dissenting Board members, depending
upon who
they believed was telling the truth. In 1951, those who felt
lied
to
sided with either Long or with Hartley, depending upon...well,
you
know....
By 1931 there were dozens of "Theosophical" organizations
populated by
Theosophists who believed that they have been lied to. Who is
going to
cut through the Gordian knot and tell us who are the liars and
who
are
the truth tellers?
I have met the leaders of all these factions and others too.
They
all
strike me as sincere and dedicated people trying to promulgate
Theosophy
to the best of their ability. Isn't that good enough?
Perhaps the Theosophical Movement is better off with its
multitude
of
expressions coming from many organizations. Now, students of
Theosophy
have different schools to compare. They can choose the one
(on
ones)
which best meet their temperament.
I submit that the most constructive thing a member of a
Theosophical
organization can do is to keep an eye on their own
organization
and make
sure that those in charge are being honest. Let the members
of
other
organizations keep watch on their own leaders.
Best
Jerry
Anand Gholap wrote:
Let us analyse facts given in message 30270.
Purucker wrote in ES circular
if within three months after
de Purucker's death or disappearance no-one could give "the
proper
proofs of
spiritual leadership", "then you will know that you have
failed".
No such leader or Outer Head of ES emerged, which meant
Pasadena
TS
failed, there was no ES after Purucker's death and so there
was
no
Outer Head of ES in Pasadena TS. Despite these specific
directions,
in 1945, Conger claimed to be the Outer Head of the Esoteric
School
which had ceased to exist. He appointed William Hartley as
successor, cabinate rejected him and appointed James Long as
leader
in 1951. James Long closed ES and told that Purucker had
already
stopped ES instructions in 1939. Does that mean Pasadena TS
told
lies during 1939 to 1951 under the name of Esoteric
Instructions ?
AG
--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, gregory@ wrote:
In response to Damian's request for information on the Pt
Loma/Pasadena ES I am
sending a summary of a section from a paper I gave at a
Thosophical history
conference in California many years ago. It comes from a
study
of
secret
societies and esoteric groups within the Theosophical
movement.
I
hope to
complete the work for publication one day.
Dr Gregory Tillett
De Purucker died suddenly and unexpectedly on September 27,
1942.
He had left
specific instructions regarding his successor: the successor
was
to "emerge"
within three years after de Purucker's death, and would be
recognized by "the
proper proofs of spiritual leadership". During those three
years,
the Society
was to be ruled by a Cabinet. If no Head emerged, then the
Cabinet was to
elect a leader.
No successor emerged, and the Cabinet elected Colonel
Conger.
The
ES continued
without an OH. De Purucker had made no provision for a
successor
to be
appointed, but, at ES meetings he had given directions on
the
matter, and these
had been published in a confidential ES circular: if within
three
months after
de Purucker's death or disappearance no-one could give "the
proper
proofs of
spiritual leadership", "then you will know that you have
failed".
The ES was
meanwhile administered by a Council.
Conger began to make claims to this position. At a meeting
of
the
ES on
December 21, 1945, Conger claimed to be the OH of the ES.
The
Cabinet divided
between those who accepted this claim (including John van
Mater
and Grace
Knoche) and those who rejected it (including Henry Edge and
Emmett
Small).
On December 25, ten leading members of the ES (including
Small,
Harrison and
Edge) presented Conger with a statement of protest against
his
claim. They
challenged Conger to demonstrate knowledge of an inner
degree
of
the ES. Conger
declined to do so.
A controversy developed between Conger and his supporters,
and
those who denied
his claims. In March, 1946, Conger demanded the resignation
of
the dissidents.
It seems probable that the majority of members of the ES
within
the Point Loma
Society rejected Conger's claim.
At a meeting on Paris 4, 1946, Conger announced the closure
of
the
ES "by the
Master's direction", and declared that esoteric activities
were
now "forbidden
by the Master". However, in October, 1946, a circular was
sent
out announcing
that ES activities were to be resumed, and those wishing to
take
part must sign
and return a pledge, whereupon they would receive de
Purucker's
ES
instructions.
Conger died on February 22, 1951, and left a witnessed
document
appointing
William Hartley as his successor. However, the Cabinet
unanimously refused to
recognize Hartley and James Long was appointed as leader.
Long claimed that de Purucker had stopped giving out
teachings
about 1939, and
that there had been no instruction after that year even in
the
ES. Long
finally closed the ES, saying, enigmatically, "the esoteric
has
now become
exoteric, and the exoteric esoteric".
Following Long's death on July 19, 1971, he was succeeded by
Grace
Knoche.
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