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Re: Theos-World Re: Did Pasadena TS tell lies under the name of Esoteric Instructions ?

Mar 11, 2006 12:14 PM
by Iain


Annand is not the spokesperson of Adyar TS and has no authority to speak on topics on their behalf. Any comments that Annand are his own, and are not the view of the TS HQ at Aydar. He must not put forward views in such a manner that it appears to be official or semi official policy. Do do so is incorrect and improper.
cheers Iain
----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Hejka-Ekins" <jjhe@charter.net>
To: <theos-talk@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 11, 2006 1:59 AM
Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: Did Pasadena TS tell lies under the name of Esoteric Instructions ?


Dear Anand,

That is true. All organization have some corrupt people. But it is
the degree that matters. Adyar TS also has it, but less.

Since you have not personally worked with the leaders and members of any
Theosophical Organizations except Adyar, you have no first hand
experience from which to make such an evaluation.  Why do you speak of
such things that you yourself do not know?

My judgement is Pasadena TS or any other organization, except Adyar
TS, was never considered as Theosophical Society by the Masters.



Have you studied the ES teaching of other Theosophical organizations? Do
you know individuals who have been trained in the ES of other
organizations?

Masters considered Adyar TS as only TS founded by Them.

Did a Master tell you this?

So other organizations will come and get vanished.

As so the Adyar TS is also vanishing.

ES was closed by Pasadena
TS because it was never Masters' organization.

Did a Master tell you this?

Adyar TS continued because it has Masters' blessing.

Or the Master fled in disgust to leave it to die with the rest of the
Theosophical Organizations.  Who are you to say which is the correct
interpretation?

Adyar TS is also not in best
condition and I would expect it to improve in some areas.

Fellowship among their own members and altruism to all might be two
areas they could work on.

But it will continue as Masters have blessed it and will continue to work
through it.

Do you know this from the Masters?

Best,
Jerry



Anand Gholap wrote:

--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Jerry Hejka-Ekins <jjhe@...>
wrote:


Dear Anand,



What is your conclusion after studying this subject.

My conclusion is that mistakes were made on both sides and a lot of pain could have been avoided. My other conclusion is that whenever there is money, property and influence, there are always individuals trying to keep control of it and others trying to get control of it. This seems to be universal--no organization is immune to this dynamic.


That is true. All organization have some corrupt people. But it is
the degree that matters. Adyar TS also has it, but less.


If you have digital copies, send me or copy those things here.




I'm afraid that Theosophical History is a copyrighted scholarly
journal. My position as an associate editor does not give me the
liberty to copy and post articles from it on the Internet.  I am sure


that the Adyar Library receives a subscription to it, and you will be


able to go through the articles there.  If not, I will try to dig
through the back issues and find the articles and make a copy for you.


But I will have to work it in between other projects.


There is no need of that. I will get it in future, it is not urgent.



Well, a lot of things can be made of Long's actions.  But you must keep


in mind just what power the ES represented.  What I am saying is that


certain individuals (a very small number), who were also in the ES, were


responsible for recognizing and affirming the successor.  Purucker had


given them the necessary training and knowledge so that they would be


able to recognize his successor.  These individuals did not recognize


Conger, Hartley or Long, because none of them gave the required signal.


So, one could argue that the elimination of the ES was also the
elimination of those who opposed these leaders.  In the long run, the


consensus has been that the elimination of the ES was a good thing.


Emmett Small (who was the ES Secretary and opposed Conger etc.) remarked


to me on many occasions that eliminating the ES was a wise move and


ought to be eliminated in all Theosophical Organizations.  So, in this


case, individuals on both sides who were in management ultimately agreed


on this point.


My judgement is Pasadena TS or any other organization, except Adyar
TS, was never considered as Theosophical Society by the Masters.
Masters considered Adyar TS as only TS founded by Them. So other
organizations will come and get vanished. ES was closed by Pasadena
TS because it was never Masters' organization. Adyar TS continued
because it has Masters' blessing. Adyar TS is also not in best
condition and I would expect it to improve in some areas. But it
will continue as Masters have blessed it and will continue to work
through it.
AG



Anand Gholap wrote:



Dear Jerry,
Regarding the Purucker-Conger-Hartley-Long




situation, I have in my archives thousands of unpublished


documents including letters, minutes of meetings, diary entries etc.
concerning this sequence of events.  I have also, over the years,
personally


interviewed many of the people involved concerning it, including


Emmett Small, Kirby van Mater, and Judith Tyberg.





What is your conclusion after studying this subject.





If you ever come to the
United States, you are welcome to visit us, examine the


documents,and come to your own conclusions.





I would like to visit and see the documents and other good work


you


are doing.






In the mean time, there is in the back issues of Theosophical


History an article on Conger by Alan Donant and a reply by Kenneth
Small which addresses many of the issues and should give you a feel
for the opposing views on this issue.





If you have digital copies, send me or copy those things here.

One would have to appreciate courage of James Long. It was not


easy


to boldly tell people that ES did not exist of which he was


head.


It must have been against popular ideas. Especially people in
management generally like to keep holding to power and they could
have opposed James Long when he removed that power.


AG





Anand Gholap wrote:





Dear Jerry,
Thanks for info. You said you found honest students in all
organization. That is true but point I wrote is different.
You wrote implying members belong to, are and should be loyal


to


their organization. Fact is there is no one organization to


which


serious students belong. Their goal should be to find the truth




from




all sources and organizations. Loyalty should be to truth and


it


should not be blind supporting of organizations of which a


person





is




member.
My question is still not answered. So it is being written


again.


Let us analyse facts given in message 30270.
Purucker wrote in ES circular






if within three months after
de Purucker's death or disappearance no-one could give "the




proper









proofs of






spiritual leadership", "then you will know that you have


failed".







No such leader or Outer Head of ES emerged, which meant


Pasadena





TS




failed, there was no ES after Purucker's death and so there was


no


Outer Head of ES in Pasadena TS. Despite these specific




directions,




in 1945, Conger claimed to be the Outer Head of the Esoteric




School




which had ceased to exist. He appointed William Hartley as
successor, cabinet rejected him and appointed James Long as


leader


in 1951. James Long closed ES and told that Purucker had already
stopped ES instructions in 1939. Does that mean Pasadena TS told
lies during 1939 to 1951 under the name of Esoteric


Instructions ?


AG

--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Jerry Hejka-Ekins <jjhe@>
wrote:






Dear Anand, Friends,

Let's put it this way: in 1895, those who felt lied to, sided




with




either Besant or Judge, depending upon who they believed was






telling the






truth.  Accordingly, those who felt lied in in 1945-46, sided




with




either Conger, or with the dissenting Board members, depending






upon who






they believed was telling the truth.  In 1951, those who felt




lied









to






sided with either Long or with Hartley, depending upon...well,




you









know....






By 1931 there were dozens of "Theosophical" organizations






populated by






Theosophists who believed that they have been lied to.  Who is






going to






cut through the Gordian knot and tell us who are the liars and




who









are






the truth tellers?

I have met the leaders of all these factions and others too.




They









all






strike me as sincere and dedicated people trying to promulgate






Theosophy






to the best of their ability.  Isn't that good enough?

Perhaps the Theosophical Movement is better off with its




multitude









of






expressions coming from many organizations.  Now, students of






Theosophy






have different schools to compare.  They can choose the one


(on







ones)






which best meet their temperament.

I submit that the most constructive thing a member of a






Theosophical






organization can do is to keep an eye on their own


organization







and make






sure that those in charge are being honest.  Let the members


of







other






organizations keep watch on their own leaders.

Best
Jerry



Anand Gholap wrote:







Let us analyse facts given in message 30270.
Purucker wrote in ES circular








if within three months after
de Purucker's death or disappearance no-one could give "the






proper













proofs of








spiritual leadership", "then you will know that you have






failed".













No such leader or Outer Head of ES emerged, which meant




Pasadena









TS






failed, there was no ES after Purucker's death and so there


was







no






Outer Head of ES in Pasadena TS. Despite these specific






directions,






in 1945, Conger claimed to be the Outer Head of the Esoteric






School






which had ceased to exist. He appointed William Hartley as
successor, cabinate rejected him and appointed James Long as






leader






in 1951. James Long closed ES and told that Purucker had




already




stopped ES instructions in 1939. Does that mean Pasadena TS




told




lies during 1939 to 1951 under the name of Esoteric




Instructions ?




AG

--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, gregory@ wrote:








In response to Damian's request for information on the Pt








Loma/Pasadena ES I am








sending a summary of a section from a paper I gave at a








Thosophical history








conference in California many years ago. It comes from a


study







of













secret








societies and esoteric groups within the Theosophical




movement.









I













hope to








complete the work for publication one day.

Dr Gregory Tillett

De Purucker died suddenly and unexpectedly on September 27,






1942.













He had left








specific instructions regarding his successor: the successor




was











to "emerge"








within three years after de Purucker's death, and would be








recognized by "the








proper proofs of spiritual leadership".  During those three






years,













the Society








was to be ruled by a Cabinet.  If no Head emerged, then the








Cabinet was to








elect a leader.

No successor emerged, and the Cabinet elected Colonel


Conger.







The













ES continued








without an OH. De Purucker had made no provision for a




successor











to be








appointed, but, at ES meetings he had given directions on


the









matter, and these








had been published in a confidential ES circular: if within






three













months after








de Purucker's death or disappearance no-one could give "the






proper













proofs of








spiritual leadership", "then you will know that you have






failed".













The ES was








meanwhile administered by a Council.

Conger began to make claims to this position.  At a meeting


of







the













ES on








December 21, 1945, Conger claimed to be the OH of the ES.


The









Cabinet divided








between those who accepted this claim (including John van




Mater











and Grace








Knoche) and those who rejected it (including Henry Edge and






Emmett













Small).








On December 25, ten leading members of the ES (including




Small,











Harrison and








Edge) presented Conger with a statement of protest against


his









claim.  They








challenged Conger to demonstrate knowledge of an inner


degree





of











the ES. Conger








declined to do so.

A controversy developed between Conger and his supporters,


and









those who denied








his claims.  In March, 1946, Conger demanded the resignation




of











the dissidents.








It seems probable that the majority of members of the ES




within











the Point Loma








Society rejected Conger's claim.

At a meeting on Paris 4, 1946, Conger announced the closure


of







the













ES "by the








Master's direction", and declared that esoteric activities




were











now "forbidden








by the Master".  However, in October, 1946, a circular was




sent











out announcing








that ES activities were to be resumed, and those wishing to




take











part must sign








and return a pledge, whereupon they would receive de




Purucker's









ES













instructions.








Conger died on February 22, 1951, and left a witnessed




document











appointing








William Hartley as his successor.  However, the Cabinet








unanimously refused to








recognize Hartley and James Long was appointed as leader.

Long claimed that de Purucker had stopped giving out


teachings









about 1939, and








that there had been no instruction after that year even in


the









ES.  Long








finally closed the ES, saying, enigmatically, "the esoteric




has











now become








exoteric, and the exoteric esoteric".

Following Long's death on July 19, 1971, he was succeeded by






Grace













Knoche.









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