Theos-Talk Archives (March 2006 Message tt00100)

Hello Steve,
Good to hear from you.  As HPB says we are no good to anyone, including the Mahatmas, if we cannot learn to discriminate between the real and the false.  This misconstrueing of the path, could be a test of sorts for pre-probationary students.  A kind of, well you figure it out, are you going to accept what others say because they hold higher authority?  Even the Masters should be questioned, how else will we be able to know a true master from a dugpa.  I have been told that it is all in the eyes, but as I haven't had the pleasure or displeasure of meeting either, my eyes will be on the eyes.

My first teacher always reminded me to maintain a healthy skepticism, not to embrace anything too closely, and be prepared to learn and relearn from my misunderstandings.  Although the truth doesn't change what changes is our ideas on how we see the truth.

I believe that when on the path proper we step outside the herd mentality, and only when we learn that separateness from our inner god is what causes us sin and suffering, rather than separateness from others.  But I am only speculating.  I believe also that the 5th initiation, is when the soul is made to feel abandoned by our inner god, totally alone yet one with all, that we are truly free of crucifixion.

Cheers
Cass


Steven Levey <sallev1@yahoo.com> wrote: Cass-
     I was raised Jewish, and upon first encountering Theosophy, I also encountered the Liberal Catholic Church. My first inclination was to think how beautiful. However, and following some meditation on the LCC, it occurred to me that it represents not so much a perversion but a misconstrueing of the Path. For it still allows for one to be lead through ritual, to follow those whom one must adore within the Church (who are in fact the Church as Leadbetter invisioned it-The Mahatmas). Its this adoration through ritual that I think is a miscontrueing of what the Mahatmas want of us. 
      I don't think its hidden at all, that the concerns of the Mahatmas and HPB for their younger bretheren, is that they "wake up" to their own inner divinity, which is hidden and blocked through a sense of external adoration and worship. Inner divinity, being connected to all beings, is a natural sense of Universal Brotherhood. 
      So, even though it may take lifetimes to get over our inclinations towards sectarian practice, it is just that which engendors "The Great Dire Heresy of Seperatness", which the Buddha said is the only "sin". This "sin" is so prevelent today in the world, as the basis for so many deaths.
   
  Steve

Cass Silva  wrote:
  Hello Morten
Many of our generation were church fed and for many one lifetime is not enough to encompass the river of tradition and belief. Annie Besant made it possible for those souls to hold on to their traditional religious cultures while embracing theosophy at the same time. They stand like the pillars of Hercules one foot on each side of the ocean. Our children are not in this same situation as they have been reared to think for themselves in regard to their own philosophical beliefs.

Although this is the long way around the mountain, at least it is a step in the right direction. Diehard Blavatskians like me, have no trouble, dumping the baggage of religious dogma and embracing the Secret Doctrine, even without proof, and for no other reason than its grand vision it's logical coherence, and its consistancy with ancient teachings.

Perhaps the Masters through HPB saw that men's minds needed to be revolutionised in their thinking or else we will be the cause of our own destruction, as we can see this happening in the world today.

Cass

"M. Sufilight" wrote: Hallo Carlos and all,

My views are:

Yes.
I would also like Pedro and other Leadbeater fans
comment on that quote by the Mahatma, and explain why the LCC
is not exactly losing its socalled - reason the exist - in the same manner 
as the by Carlos in the below quoted Priest and Churches.

Here is some more explanation why I am against CWL's LIberal Catholic 
Church (LCC).
My poor somewhat almost Middle Eastern Sufi-heart is suffering seeing this 
problem, not being dealt with properly.
There are too many members with what I would call Christian-theosophical 
tendencies. These same members has a lot of prejudice to
offer the Middle East if they develop their occult skills prematurely or in 
the wrong direction.


As Blavatsky said in her 1888 article:
IS THEOSOPHY A RELIGION?

"Moreover, the very raison d'�tre of the Theosophical Society was, from its 
beginning, to utter a loud protest and lead an open warfare against dogma or 
any belief based upon blind faith.
It may sound odd and paradoxical, but it is true to say that, hitherto, the 
most apt workers in practical theosophy, its most devoted members were those 
recruited from the ranks of agnostics and even of materialists. No genuine, 
no sincere searcher after truth can ever be found among the blind believers 
in the "Divine Word," let the latter be claimed to come from Allah, Brahma 
or Jehovah, or their respective Kuran, Purana and Bible. For:

Faith is not reason's labour, but repose. "
http://www.blavatsky.net/blavatsky/arts/IsTheosophyAReligion.htm

Leadbeater even himself admits his own double-standard.
Here from "Inner Life" written 1917, C. W. Leadbeater.

" CEREMONIAL
287. 
The line of ceremonial is one along which many people come, but of course it 
must be understood that no religious ceremonial whatever is ever really 
essential, and the man who wishes to enter upon the Path of Holiness must 
realize this fully and must cast off belief in the necessity of ceremonies, 
as one of the fetters which hold him back from nirvana. This does not mean 
that ceremonies may not be sometimes quite effective in producing the 
results which are intended, but only that they are never really necessary 
for any one, and that the candidate for higher progress must learn to do 
utterly without them. The ceremonial line is an easy road for a certain type 
of people, and is really helpful and uplifting for them; but there is 
another type of men who always feel ceremonial as an obstacle between 
themselves and the deities which they wish to reach.

288. 
In Christianity this ceremonial line is the one appointed by its founder, 
through which his magic is to work. The consecration of the host, for 
example, is a means by which spiritual force is poured out over the people. 
There is often a vast amount of devotional feeling at the moment of the 
consecration, and the working of the magic is assisted by that, though it 
does not depend upon it. Those who are devotional unquestionably receive 
more because they bring with them an additional faculty of reception. On the 
other hand, there is always the probability that ignorant devotion will 
degenerate into superstition. In a recent enquiry into these matters from 
the occult point of view, made in Sicily, I found that there was certainly 
plenty of superstition, and much harmful interference in family matters on 
the part of the priests; but still on the whole the country was distinctly 
better than it would have been without it. We should remember also that in 
history we usually hear much of the worst effects of religious enthusiasm, 
whereas the good steady progress of many thousands under its influence makes 
but little impression."




Let us hear your wise words in response Pedro, Dave and friends.



from
M. Sufilight with peace and love...

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "carlosaveline cardoso aveline" 
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2006 5:38 PM
Subject: Theos-World The Mahatmas and a "Liberal" Church


>
>
> Dear Sufilight,
>
>
> Thanks.
>
> Perhaps Pedro Oliveira or some other Liberal Catholic
> priest could comment this paragraph you quote
> from the "Mahatma Letters" ?...
>
> "I will point out the greatest, the chief cause of nearly two-thirds of 
> the
> evils that pursue humanity ever since it became a power. It is the
> sacerdotal cast the priesthood and the churches. It is those illusions 
> that
> man looks upon as sacred that he has to search out the source of the
> multitude of evils which is the great curse of humanity and that almost
> overwhelms mankind. Ignorance created Gods, and cunning took advantage of
> the opportunity." (Letter 10 in the Non-chronological editions)
>
> Best regards, Carlos.
>
>>From: "M. Sufilight" 
>>Reply-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
>>To: 
>>Subject: Re: Theos-World Begging money for the "Coming"
>>Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2006 09:52:24 +0100
>>
>>Hallo,
>>
>>
>>My views are:
>>
>>John, I guess this is the place...
>>http://www.timestar.org/e-mail.htm
>>
>>I did like these words:
>> There is one thought which specially brings a doubt to my mind,
>>especially when I have long since come to realize the truth contained in
>>the
>>following quotation from one of the Mahatma letters:--
>>
>>"I will point out the greatest, the chief cause of nearly two-thirds of 
>>the
>>evils that pursue humanity ever since it became a power. It is the
>>sacerdotal cast the priesthood and the churches. It is those illusions
>>that
>>man looks upon as sacred that he has to search out the source of the
>>multitude of evils which is the great curse of humanity and that almost
>>overwhelms mankind. Ignorance created Gods, and cunning took advantage of
>>the opportunity."
>>
>> It is incomprehensible to me how Dr. Bezants pronouncement that the
>>power
>>of the World Teacher manifests in the L. C. C. with the Herald of the Star
>>filled with pictures of Priests and clergy, it is incomprehensible how one
>>can harmonize the two thoughts, especially in view of the fact that H. P.
>>B's and hundreds of quotations from letters of the masters and also the
>>early writings of Mr. Leadbeter condemned the vary teachings of the
>>Christian church as false and misleading, which now are apparently found 
>>to
>>be true.
>>
>> Having studied the writings of Dr. Besant, Leadbeter, H. P. B. and The
>>Mahatmas and Sinnett, I must admit that I am completely unable to make the
>>same harmonize with the more recent teachings of our leaders, especially 
>>in
>>view of their references to the L. C. C. and the apparent building or
>>hoping
>>to build in the world sacerdotal organization or organizations that have
>>within themselves the seed for greater misery and power than is possible 
>>at
>>the present time under Christian Theology.
>>
>>
>>
>>from
>>M. Sufilight with a smile...
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: 
>>To: 
>>Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2006 8:53 AM
>>Subject: Re: Theos-World Begging money for the "Coming"
>>
>>
>> > Was this posted by David Green? Lol. Might someone tell me who or what
>> > "Timestar" is?
>> >
>> > John
>> >
>> >
>> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Yahoo! Groups Links
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
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