Theos-Talk Archives (February 2006 Message tt00464)

Carlos,

I think it might be about time that you cease your continuous insinuations 
and innuendoes about Daniel Caldwell's supposed fraudulent impersonations -- 
that seems to be supported by hearsay evidence based solely on the vague 
speculations of an alleged enemy of Caldwell who has a personal ax to grind because of 
Caldwell's disagreement with his historical findings.  

>From my standpoint, none of that looks very good, coming from someone who 
claims to be a theosophist in the true sense of the word.   

In fact, it appears that your technique of constant referral to this question 
and continued second hand inquisitional demands (e.g., in letters to others) 
for a confession or proof of innocence, is far worse than the similar methods 
of direct historical questioning used by Caldwell... That, even though it 
sometimes irritates the one being questioned, I feel such an approach is quite 
justified in getting at the historical truth from an objective standpoint.   I 
don't see such objectivity in your case, however, since your probes are 
beginning to sound quite personal.

If such inferences were made about me, and continually repeated in the 
subject line of and within ongoing correspondences with others by mention of my name 
-- I would consider such disguised accusations by inference and innuendo as 
an attempt to discredit me -- and possibly, if continued repeatedly with 
evident intention to harm my reputation and honor as well as my credibility, as 
libelous.   This also smacks of the same technique used by a Leadbeater 
proselytizer in recent correspondence here, to discredit HPB.   

It's as if you were setting yourself up as both judge and jury under the 
assumption that Caldwell is guilty until proven innocent.   This strikes me as 
using the same techniques that many enemies of Blavatsky used to insinuate her 
guilt as a fraudulent medium with cooked up Masters and an equally phony 
pseudoscientific philosophy. 

Since HPB thought the best way to deal with such attacks was to ignore them, 
I don't think DHC has any less right to choose to do the same with your public 
insinuations and leading questions that have by now, due to their 
repetitiveness, gone far beyond the limits of propriety.

If I were he, I would choose similarly -- since any denial of such charges 
will not convince anyone, and it would just fire up the idea that I might be 
lying -- thus further reinforcing the idea that I might be guilty.   On the other 
hand if I would admit such culpability, should your innuendoes be true, I 
could lose all credibility as an impartial historian, scientist, etc., with no 
personal axes to grind.   Remaining silent then, as HPB chose in similar 
circumstances, would seem to be the only choice.   

I'm sure, if you have thoroughly studied HPB and WQJ, you will know what I 
mean when I say that all you seem to be engaging in is just plain gossip -- 
that, if such apparent gossip proves to be based on a personal animosity, could 
immediately destroy all your credibility as a wise person in the eyes of any 
truly perceptive theosophist.

In any event, it's you who have accused Caldwell by such insinuations, 
innuendo's and constant repetition -- therefore, it behooves you to either bring 
forth unassailable evidence to prove his guilt, or admit that such cheap shots 
aren't consistent with your apparently superficial and possibly specious stand 
as a practicing theosophist with the best interests of the Movement at heart.   


Accordingly, I think it only right to put your actions on the stand for 
impersonal judgment by your peers.   I'm sure that if you should admit the 
inappropriateness of your repetitious questions of Caldwell's sincerity as a 
theosophical historian and curator, such inadvertent apparent gossip could be easily 
forgiven.

I hope you will take this in all good faith, with no personal disparagement 
intended.

Sincerely,

Leon Maurer



In a message dated 2/19/06 3:14:58 PM, carlosaveline@hotmail.com writes:


> Dear Konstantin,
> 
> Very briefly,
> 
> 1) I don't speak for the ULT, which is not a corporation like Adyar. I speak
> for myself as an independent student.
> 
> 2) I am not discussing Caldwell's person, althoug the person is NOT entirely
> separated from
> what the person does.  I am not even discussing Caldwell's actions.   I am
> inviting Caldwell
> to give us a confirmation or not of Paul Jhnson's according to which Daniel
> Caldwell committed intellectual fraud against the theosophical movement, by
> creating "alternative persons" specialized in attacking theosophical groups.
> Paul says the ULT is one of the main targets of Caldwell's.
> Caldwell's surprising silence on the matter frankly vorught up by Paul does
> not help his loyal friends like you.  If Caldwell refuses to answer to Paul,
> this is tantamount to say without words: "Paul is right, and  I, Daniel, did
> the fraud and invented Mr. Green, Mr. Hobbes, etc."  As a student,
> Konstantin, I, Carlos want to understand things and know who's who. Pedro
> Oliveira is a real person. You are a real person. Are there several persons
> in Daniel? Will Daniel clarify?
> 
> 3) As to the legitimacy of CWL's teachings, I am waiting for your
> commentaries on his Martian and Mercurian discoveries.
> 
> 
> Best regards,   Carlos Cardoso Aveline
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> >From: "Konstantin Zaitzev" <kay_ziatz@yahoo.com>
> >Reply-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> >To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> >Subject: Theos-World Re: TS Obituaries
> >Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2006 10:15:51 -0000
> >
> >Dear Carlos,
> >
> > > Now, the Master is referring to people who belong to the same
> > > association, in the same time and space,  and  who have
> > > personal, lower-self  reasons to criticize one another, etc.
> > > Well, I am not discussing Leadbeater's person
> >
> >I meant that you have discussed Caldwell's person, and it had
> >nothing to do with his philosophical views. I've also read
> >somewhere that one prominent person from ULT accused well-
> >known theosophists of his time in practicing black magic.
> >
> > > The truth is that HPB's teachings are authentic, while CWL's
> > > teachings are fancies.
> >
> >It's rather matter of belief (for those who didn't experimented
> >himself). Yet CWL's teachings are DEPENDENT, i.e. if HPB's
> >teachings are false, CWL's teachings are false too. His writings on
> >Mars don't fit modern science, but HPB goes even somewhat
> >further.
> >
> >"Blavatsky:
> >Now, if I am asked if the moon moves - it is in relation to the moon
> >that this is asked - if I am asked why the moon moves in an orbit
> >round the earth,I reply that this is caused by the vampirising action
> >of the moon upon the earth, not as science teaches owing to an
> >attraction exerted by the earth upon the moon, but rather the
> >reverse; the moon is so saturated with the magneto, vital
> >emanation of the earth that she is carried along by it like an over-
> >full sponge in a current of water
> >...
> >the moon is a dead planet.
> >Kingsland: - And that is why it has ceased to revolve.
> >Mdme. Blavatsky: - It has ceased to revolve, and therefore it is
> >carried on by induced motion, so to say, from that emanation from
> >the earth.
> >Keightley: - The scientific idea of the thing is that it is a
> >purely mechanical movement, because the large mass of matter
> >having once been set spinning, there is no friction and nothing to
> >stop it.
> >Blavatsky: - Don't speak to me about science, because science
> >and I are on cool terms."
> >
> >(Transactions Of The Blavatsky Lodge, April 25 th, 1889)
> >See full text at
> >http://www.teosofia.com/Docs/vol-2-11-supplement.pdf
> >
> >All this goes against very basic principles of mechanics proven by
> >countless experiments, not only against latest discoveries in
> >space. And if in latter case we can suppose that Americans are
> >hiding something from us (as it was reported they have changed
> >color of the photos) there is no even such weak excuse in the case
> >of mechanics. And note that all space flights are possible just
> >because of knowledge of that mechanics. Satellites, by the way,
> >should be stabilized by gyroscopes, otherwise they, due some
> >slight impulse, tend to rotate around their axes! The abovequoted
> >text was also witheld for a long time and was published only
> >recently.
> >
> >So we all, regardless of the particular school, are are "on cool
> >terms" with science, and it's one of the reasons, I think, why
> >Krishnamurti's teachings are so popular in TS Adyar now. It's very
> >safe position to state that all is a play of mind.
> >
> > > I note you did NOT ask for commentaries about the other things
> > > besides the Adyar E.S.
> >
> >I was just trying to look somewhat less curious than I really am.
> >You may feel free to write everything you want.
> >As for obituaries, there were some misterious deaths in ranks of
> >important TS workers, and I'm in some extent informed about this.
> >But it was not connected with CWL teaching.
> >
> > > You don't even belong or belonged to that which in Adyar TS is
> > > called as "the heart of the Society".
> >
> >There can be different opinions where is the heart of the Society.
> >If it was known for everyone, Theosophical Society could be easily
> >destroyed.
> >
> > > "The Key to Theosophy", by Helena P. Blavatsky.  Read and
> > > study before judging."
> >
> >Of course I've read it for I've made a corrected translation of it
> >(which is already printed in more than 20000 copies for the last two
> >years). I prefer to spend main efforts to promotion of theosophy
> >(like Caldwell probably does too) than to judging the work of other
> >theosophists.
> >And as experience shows, it doesn't matter whose version of
> >theosophy do we spread for all teach the same attitude to life.
> >It depends mainly of the audience whose teaching they shall
> >accept more readily. So we need a wide range of authors and
> >approaches, not the one only.
> >Some theosophists unfortunately behave exactly like christians.
> >While as all schools of Christianity teach the same basic things,
> >christians in great extent fight with each another instead of
> >converting into christianity thr rest of the world.
> >
> >
> >Pedro wrote:
> >
> > > There was a smoking ceremony at the opening ... I did meet the
> > > members from Ukraine but didn't know about the reported
> > > phenomena.
> >
> >It wasn't on the opening, it was reported to occur in the mountains.
> >Anyway, in this case I have no more evidences than about HPB miracles,
> >with that only difference that I've met a first hand witness. Such
> >"miracles" are not so uncommon, you've probably heard about similar
> >feats made by aborigenal shamans in many countries, including Brazil.
> >Most probably it is based on some knowledge about nature spirits.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> 



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