Theos-Talk Archives (September 2005 Message tt00204)

Speaking of gurus, I don't recommend them either. They make you
reliant on the person to get knowlege, and you won't be able to think
for yourself when the time comes. The guru has the ability to give you
false information in order to manipulate you as well. There's all
sorts of problems associated with them.

A true master such as a Mahatma is not a guru--he's more of a guide.
He will tell you only enough to keep you on your course. When you
prove to him that you have the drive then they will, at their
discretion, train you more rigidly. But until that time it's one
challenging test after another.

Initiation into any order is generally not a task to be taken lightly.
If you aren't being an initiated, and are just dabbling in the occult
arts, then there about a million tutorials online that you can use.
Hey, you gotta start somewhere right?

-Mark H.

On 9/15/05, plcoles1 <plcoles1@...> wrote:
> Hi Mark and All,
> This is an interesting area when looked at in terms of motive and intent.
> I have gone though this myself in various different forms and have found underlying it to a
> greater or lesser extent the same type of motivation in many instances and that is the
> need for rescuing or the desire to be saved by someone or something outside of myself.
> 
> This can be in the way of a guru a mantra or a ceremony of some kind or chanting.
> I am not saying these things are in themselves at fault however I do think the mind can
> hook into them and turn them into a mechanism of fear or avoidence and ironically
> disempowerment.
> 
> People often talk about how they circle themselves in `white light' in order to keep
> themselves safe from negative influences or whatever.
> In some respects I think what this does is just manifest a form of fear as that tends to be
> the energy or motive that generates it.
> 
> Chanting mantras can be the same, not always but can (underline) depending on motive
> and intent as you say and then become a form of avoidance and/or fear.
> 
> It is like the idea that performing special rituals will some how make you more special than
> others or if you have this particular guru's initiation or mantra you aremore special than
> other people who don't.....
> This comes up in the Radhasoami tradition and many others as well.
> 
> HPB makes an interesting statement in the proem to the Secret Doctrine :
> 
> "The true philosopher, the student of Esoteric Wisdom, entirely looses sight of
> personalities, dogmatic beliefs and special religions."
> 
> There is a lot in that statement I think
> 
> Another very interesting passage that is related regarding the effect of intent in what we
> do is in the first letter from KH to Hume:
> 
> 
> "In conformity with exact modern Science you would define but one cosmic energy, and
> see no difference between the energy expended by the traveller who pushesaside the
> bush that obstructs his path, and the scientific experimenter who expendsan equal
> amount of energy in setting a pendulum in motion! We do. For we know there is a world of
> difference between the two. The one uselessly dissipates or scatters force, the other
> concentrates and stores it. And here please understand that I do not refer to the relative
> utility of the two as one might imagine; but only to the fact, that in the one case, there is
> but brute force flung out without any transmutation of that brute energy into the higher
> potential form of spiritual dynamics, and, in the other there is just that."
> 
> http://www.theosociety.org/pasadena/mahatma/ml-khaoh.htm
> 
> 
> 
> Regards
> 
> Perry
> 
> --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Mark Hamilton Jr." <waking.adept@g...> wrote:
> > Mantras and chanting are used very frequently in Reiki and Chi kung.
> > Their effectiveness is only as good as the user's intent and focus;
> > just saying the words doesn't do anything at all. It's supposed to
> > raise the intensity and feeling you get when you practice (sometimes
> > giving you a euphoric feeling when using healing arts).
> >
> > Same things with scents, music, and other sensory stimulation.
> > However, I was scolded for using music. If you're an actual initiate,
> > don't use any such aids.
> >
> > -Mark H.
> >
> >
> > On 9/13/05, dalval14@e... <dalval14@e...> wrote:
> > > 9/13/2005 3:28 PM
> > >
> > > Re: chanting, etc....
> > >
> > > Dear Steve:
> > >
> > > Consider who and what is the question about.
> > >
> > > Somebody thinks they have discovered a short-cut to the higher planesof
> > > being not realizing that those planes and entities are WITHIN.
> > >
> > > It is the old "get something for free, and at no cost to me" attitude.
> > >
> > > Also: How does one select an honest and true, disinterested "Master"[who
> > > will accept no recompense] to give an appropriate chant -- I have looked at
> > > the few offered. No instructions and no knowledge of the applicant is
> > > visible there -- so, what can the use of those be ?
> > >
> > > The reason chanting is discouraged in the ancient inner schools, is that the
> > > lower mind runs on after awhile without concentration; while the higher mind
> > > is shut off from the study and the mediation on the intent of any meaning
> > > behind a given "chant."
> > >
> > > [ An Example: A beginner was give my his Master the chant: "RAMA - RAMA
> > > -- RAMA." to be repeated for several minutes.
> > >
> > > The Master entered the room after a few minutes and to his horror he heard
> > > the student repeating, without being aware of it, : MARA -- MARA --
> > > MARA -- he had inadvertently, because of inattention, reversed the chant
> > > from: RAMA to MARA.] Mara is of course the "deceiver" and evil, whereas
> > > Rama is the good and the true.
> > >
> > > -------------------------------------
> > >
> > > The first desire is to purify the lower self. How to go about it?
> > >
> > > Patanjali hints that there is the need to develop (as a preliminary) such
> > > steadiness and control of the Lower Mind that it can be held steady on the
> > > minutest object for as long as the pupil desires to so place it. But that is
> > > only a start. Next is the discrimination needed to select an appropriate
> > > subject.
> > >
> > > Also, there are psychological effects of a selfish kind, that sound and
> > > rhythm produce on the embodied mind -- and it is these that may be adverse,
> > > unless the individual has undertaken, as a priority, the task of analysing
> > > the potential of such sounds and rhythms on his own lower nature. If not
> > > controlled the Lower takes over and the whole exercise is frustrated.
> > >
> > > Obviously, the BUDDHI-MANAS and the ATMA-BUDDHI within need no such
> > > extraneous aids. So, for the deep student, this a useless matter.
> > >
> > > Our task as I understand it, is to make the Lower self the harmoniousand
> > > dutiful servant of the HIGHER SELF. It is the only way in which the
> > > Lower-Self (purified) can leave an indelible impression of its work and
> > > existence. (See The KEY TO THEOSOPHY, pp. 134-7, 132, 153, 176, 219.)
> > >
> > > Best wishes,
> > >
> > > Dallas
> > >
> > > ===============================================
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: steven levey [mailto:levey_steven@h...]
> > > Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2005 6:05 AM
> > > To: study@b...
> > > Subject: [bn-study] Re: i want more chanting words
> > >
> > > Tanuja
> > >
> > > Thanks for that. Although I am not inclined to chant, I think thatI
> > > continuously find myself saying something like the chant you offered to
> > > myself, on a daily basis.
> > >
> > > Steve
> > > CUT
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Mark Hamilton Jr.
> > waking.adept@g...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 


-- 
Mark Hamilton Jr.
waking.adept@...