Theos-Talk Archives (July 2005 Message tt00037)

Konstantin,

Thanks for your recent comments at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theos-talk/message/27615

There is much I would like to say but will just jot
down a few thoughts since my time is limited this
morning.

First of all, I would like to know your "take" on what
the Master K.H. said in the following postings:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theos-talk/message/27611

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theos-talk/message/27601

It seems that many Theosophists have ignored what
the Master says in this excerpt or downplayed what is
said or simply disbelieved the Master.....

Moving on.

You write:

"This is very old theory, first laid out probably 
by the christians to refute reincarnation in general."

Well the theory may be old but still true. And 
whether the Christians used it or not to refute
reincarnation does NOT mean that it may not be
relevant to the cases we are discussing.

You go on to say:

"If this theory was true, it would probably refute most evidences of 
reincarnation, because we simply scarcely have any others."

Well if it refutes most evidences of reincarnation, and it is
also true, then so be it.....

You also comment:

"But fortunately the telepatic theory is very unscientific, and it 
is quite obvious that those 'philosophers' who hold it, are quite 
inexperienced in psychical research, or ignoring the facts by 
religious considerations."

It is hard to understand exactly in what sense you mean the 
telpathic theory is "very unscientific".

And it may be "quite obvious" to you that these philosophers are
inexperienced in psychical research, but since you have not detailed 
why it should be so obvious, it is hard to know what you are exactly 
referring to.

You also state:

"Also it is not likely that the empty shell could survive in a good 
condition for more than 50 years, as in the case under 
consideration."

Well the "empty shell" theory may not apply to the case under 
consideration, but notice that in the following extract from the 
Master KH, he is referring not to a shell but to something else:

-----------------------------------------------------
The rule is, that a person who dies a natural death,
will remain from "a few hours to several short years,"
within the earth's attraction, i.e., in the Kama-Loka.
But exceptions are, in the case of suicides and those
who die a violent death in general. Hence, one
of such Egos, for instance, who was destined to live --
say 80 or 90 years, but who either killed himself or
was killed by some accident, let us suppose at the age
of 20 -- would have to pass in the Kama
Loka not "a few years," but in his case 60 or 70
years, as an Elementary, or rather an "earth-walker";
since he is not, unfortunately for him, even a "shell."
----------------------------------------------------------

So here we are referring to an "earth-walker" not to a "shell".

Then you add:

"It is strange that not only lower but also noble qualities survive, 
what doesn't conform the theosophical view about such shells."

But again in the case under consideration, it may not be a shell but 
an earthwalker..... and the noble qualities would survive in this 
particular "state".

Again remember what KH writes:

"...those killed by accident ... have to remain within the earth's
attraction, and in its atmosphere -- the Kama-Loka --
till the very last moment of what would have been the
natural duration of their lives. In other words, that
particular wave of life-evolution must run on to its
shore."

And KH writes that many of the victims of accident, if "good and 
pure", would "fall into a state of quiet slumber, a sleep full of 
rosy dreams, during which, they have no recollection of the 
accident, but move and live among their familiar friends and scenes, 
until their natural life-term is finished, when they find themselves 
born in the Deva-Chan...."

In other cases, the victim might be quite aware of the accident and 
still be in a state of slumber sometimes...waiting in this state 
until his/her natural lifeterm is finished and the "death 
struggle/gestation/and devachan" stages begin....

The child in the case under consideration may develop a telepathic 
rapport with this "entity" and even share the dreams of 
the "entity". I myself have had vivid dreams in which I felt I was 
someone else, not Daniel Caldwell. If this could happen in my dream 
state, then it is not such a stretch to assume that the child might 
also identify with this "other someone".

And consider this suggestive passage from another letter from K.H.:

=============================================
Quotation from Tennyson? Really cannot say. Some stray lines picked 
up in the astral light or in somebody's brain and remembered, I 
never forget what I once see or read. A bad habit. So much so, that 
often and unconsciously to myself I string together sentences of 
stray words and phrases, before my eyes and which may have been used 
hundred years ago or will be hundred years hence, in relation to 
quite a different subject. Laziness and real lack of time. The "Old 
Lady" called me a "brain pirate" and a plagiarist, the other day for 
using a whole sentence of five lines, which, she is firmly 
convinced, I must have pilfered from Dr. Wilder's brain as three 
months later, he reproduced it in an essay of his on prophetic 
intuition. Never had a look into the old philosopher's brain cells. 
Got it somewhere in a northern current -- don't know. Write this for 
your information as something new for you, I suppose. 

Thus a child may be born bearing the greatest resemblance and 
features to another person, thousands of miles off, no connexion to 
the mother, never seen by her, but whose floating image was 
impressed upon her soul-memory, during sleep or even waking hours, 
and reproduced upon the sensitized plate of living flesh she carries 
in her.
=======================================================
Quoted from:
http://www.theosociety.org/pasadena/mahatma/ml-49.htm

So one might ask: What OTHER floating "images" FROM ANOTHER PERSON 
might be impressed upon the child's own "soul-memory"???? Could 
memories float into the child's own soul-memory?

Plus keep in mind that Dr. Stevenson has also found other cases of 
children "with anomalous dates of death and birth."

He writes:

"In a small number of cases, the subject was born BEFORE the person 
whose life he remembered died...In a case of this kind, taken at 
face value, it would seem that the subject's body was fully made and 
presumably occupied by one personality before another one took it 
over...."

So if child A starts remembering a life he/she "lived" as person B 
but later it is found out that the previous life of person B did not 
end until child A was let us say 3 years old, what is child A 
ACTUALLY "remembering"? HIS OWN previous life??? or the life of 
ANOTHER human being who is now "dead"??? Or....?

These last two points need to be expanded on a great deal but I must 
do that later.

Daniel
http://hpb.cc