Theos-Talk Archives (June 2005 Message tt00064)

Hi Morten and All,
Yes the big hats are quite impressive and a lot of different 
traditions have ceremonial garb.
(like the Tibetan Buddhists for example)

So I am suggesting an either / or situation as with everything its 
not black and white and absolute and that is why we need to 
constantly beware of making sweeping statements.
No doubt rituals have there effects on the inner planes and various 
devices can be employed to give more powerful effects but the outcome 
and intent would depend on the motive of those involved in the 
ceremony.

If genuine compassionate and spiritual aspirations are being 
expressed through the ceremonial then this would as far as my 
understanding goes have an uplifting effect in other words if the 
energies are genuinely buddhic rather than kama manasic feelings of 
superiority and seperateness with the accompanying sense of fear.

Leadbeater claimed he tried to take as much as he could from the 
liturgy of the LCC any negative references to fearing God in the old 
testament sense and I think he and Wedgewood did try to do this as 
much as possible.

Where I disagree with Leadbeater is that Apostolic succession has 
anything to do with the 'connecting' the Priest to the Christ as 
ritual to me it is a collective effort and wholly depends on the 
intent and genuine selflessness of those participating in it.
If a ceremony is repeated over and over again it no doubt would build 
a 'reservoir' of power of one kind or another.

As many aspects of the Catholic Mass have their origins in the 
ancient mysteries of Egypt to me they can have powerful symbolic 
effect.

However that power can be directed in many different directions 
depending on intent.

At least that is my understanding at this point in time.
As is often the case the subtleties and implications of things that 
are the things we need to pay attention to and our investigations are 
always open to revision.

Cheers


--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "M. Sufilight" <global-
theosophy@s...> wrote:
> Allright.
> But, I still wonder why those LCC Bishop's are wearing those silly 
hats ?
> Is it fashion of the year or DO they in fact have special powers 
even if you 
> say they have not?
> 
> 
> 
> from
> M. Sufilight
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Perry Coles" <perrycoles@y...>
> To: <theos-talk@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Friday, June 03, 2005 3:41 AM
> Subject: Theos-World Re: HPB on Apostolic succession
> 
> 
> > Thanks Chuck and MKR
> > I think the reason for HPB's statement may have been because
> > apolostolic succession is a belief system that has tried to 
maintain
> > power and authority by claiming a special spiritual status and 
power
> > to 'forgive sins' and bestow 'spiritual grace'.
> > A concept that is completely anathema to the idea of karma, and 
the
> > idea that a priest can have a special spiritual link with the 
Christ
> > or Buddhic principle through the exoteric enactment of a ritual is
> > not only from a theosophical perspective unsustainable but goes
> > against any sense of justice and lawfulness.
> >
> > This teaching of priests having special powers is to me a fraud 
that
> > needs to be exposed as it has enamored and glamorized people's 
minds
> > in to subservience to external authorities rather than recognizing
> > the internal Christ within that no priest needs to invoke on our
> > behalf.
> > Rituals while they can be used as meditations for transformation 
can
> > also become crutches.
> > It can be debated that the church no longer has this power over
> > peoples minds, however the recent selection of the new Pope in 
Rome
> > showed to me how much this sort of subservience people are still 
very
> > much prone to giving to assumed authorities.
> > (The gold and braiding and jewels are still a powerful tool it 
seems.)
> >
> > This is not to imply that some clergy are not committed and 
selfless
> > workers on social issues and some like Bede Griffiths tried to 
open
> > the church up to a more wider view of Christianity and other
> > religions by taking a more theosophical approach, however still 
the
> > above points have been the cause of many burnings and torture
> > throughout history in order to maintain suppression of freedom of
> > inquiry and stifle empowerment to the individual.
> >
> > While people are of course free to believe priests have these 
special
> > powers and links it is also the right of those who don't to 
critique
> > these beliefs that have entrapped peoples minds for centuries.
> > HPB in her statement seemed to see this as quite important.
> > This for me does not imply that a Priest can not be a theosophist 
but
> > rather that the belief in priestly power can and should be 
questioned.
> >
> > Perry
> >
> > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Drpsionic@a... wrote:
> >> Years ago at Summer School, someone came up a with one of those
> > bright ideas
> >> that fly like an empty balloon and this one was to have us break 
up
> > into
> >> groups and someone would come up with a question for the rest of
> > the group to
> >> answer.
> >>
> >> Well, as luck (or someone else's bad karma) would have it, the
> > person who
> >> made up the question in our group was some poor fool heavily
> > involved in the LCC
> >> and his question was what did Theosophy think of "the saving 
blood
> > of Jesus."
> >>
> >> Well, everyone else in the group was being polite and hemming and
> > hawing and
> >> then it came to my turn. By that time I was thoroughly disgusted
> > and I looked
> >> him square in the eye and said, "To quote HPB, 'FLAPDOODLE!'"
> >>
> >> Chuck the Heretic
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >