Theos-Talk Archives (May 2005 Message tt00627)

Dear Erica
Please please don't leave on my account. There are some very good people on their list and they are truly looking for answers. Grounded people like yourself need to be available to answer or point the way to discussion and dialogue on the questions people have. Of course there will be times when two people cannot agree on an interpretation, but what matters is that both are attempting an interpretation and can agree to disagree. You and I have had our disagreements in the past but both of us have been adult enough to get over it and get on with the business of theosophy, without the need to call in the moderator. One wouldnt mind as much if it was Solomon who was moderating!
Sincere thanks for your support
Regards
Cass

Erica Letzerich <eletzerich@yahoo.com> wrote:
Dear Cass,

I am very sorry to hear that! What I can I say... I am going to leave that group, I can't stand this kind of cruel and arrogant attitude. Do not let such happenings to make you fell bad. When we have to deal all the time with fundamentalist parrots this kind of reaction is expected.

Best wishes,

Erica

Cass Silva wrote:
Yes I have been banned Erica. The moderator, Carl , said that my question on Spirit and Matter was not Blavatsky focused? Can you believe it? Apparently he drew this conclusion because I drew an anology between what William Blake said was not verifiable in the Secret Doctrine. This subsequently brought up the Mystic/Occultist paths of self realisation, that some members and myself were actively pursuing before the ban.

The reason I posted this terrible saga on Theos-talk, was because I wanted these people to know that I had been ex-communicado and would not be able to pursue the dialogue through bn-study.

Cass

Erica Letzerich wrote:
Dear Cass,

You were Banned from Blavatsky-Study?

Erica

nhcareyta wrote:
Dear Cass
You raise a number of issues, to some of which it may be my 
responsibility to respond.

By attaching my posting to Blavatsky-Study group onto this your 
posting, and your reference to "members of that group, who obviously 
support the decision" (to ban you from that group), it appears you 
may have misrepresented my posting by incorrectly inferring my 
support for that decision based on your apparent perception 
of "authorantarianship" and "curriculum."

My expressed appreciation to the moderator of that group was wholly 
concerned with "maintaining its focus on the writings of HPB and her 
Masters"; the "sub-title" of their site being "The study will remain 
Blavatsky centered."

It has been a concern of mine for many years that HPB and her 
teachers' writings are often misrepresented and even misquoted to 
substantiate one or another personal theory or opinion. 
Moreover, a number of high profile authors have even falsely claimed 
to represent her and their teachings whilst flatly contradicting many 
of them. 

Some students claim that Theosophy stands for anything at all of an 
esoteric nature. Evidently, HPB and her teachers' version did not 
support this position. From my understanding of their own words, many 
of HPB and her teachers' Theosophical concepts are quite specific in 
a number of areas which do not necessarily support or agree with 
certain other ideas. This does not necessarily make theirs right, but 
it does make them manifestly different. 

After considerable study and comparison of various theosophical 
teachings, consideration of the issues of credibility of truth in 
reporting and investigation of ideas subsequently validated by 
science, the preferred version of Theosophical information to use as 
my starting point for esoteric investigation is that of HPB and her 
Mahatmas. From this position, as our Academy website describes "These 
works are studied in the light of science, philosophy, psychology and 
religion, both ancient and modern."
It is highly appropriate to me that there is a forum in this large 
world of ours where this specific type of investigation and study can 
occur in a dignified manner and in an atmosphere of legitimate, 
rational challenge.

Although really none of my business, but as mentioned, you have 
accused me of supporting the decision, it is my perception that your 
banning from that group probably had little to do with your 
references to "authorantarianship" or "curriculum." Rather it may 
have had, in the words of the moderator you quoted in your earlier 
posting, more to do with: "Sorry Cass. This is not a serious 
response. It's a personal attack. You are not permitted to call 
others "ignorant" because they disagree with you - at least not on 
this list. Nor is it appropriate to accuse others of slander. Thanks 
for your input, but I really think you will do better on another list 
that shares your opinions and has other rules of conduct. Farewell. "

Regards
Nigel


-- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Cass Silva wrote:
> Hi all,
> Can some one out there with computer experience, please explain to 
me, how,although banned from the above subject group, I am receiving, 
messages from members of that group, who obviously support the 
decision. And it is their right and freedom to do, but to have no 
right of return is somewhat onesided.
> 
> I think this also raises the question of the Internet in the new 
Millenia. How does a website generate its funds? Do advertisers pay 
for space? Do links pay for space? Do the web search engines get 
paid? Why do adults need to be moderated? I am really quite ignorant 
about all this, and ask these questions sincerely. Neither am I 
upset or "mad" that I was banned from bn-study. But it does raise 
the question on authorantarianship and curriculum. It's as if one 
must visit the Principal's office, two visits and you are out. Will 
anything really change when those in these positions still hold the 
balance of power as is seen in the educational systems of the world, 
the political systems of the world, etc anyone who rocks the boat is 
expelled, anyone who thinks outside of the square is labelled a 
troublemaker. 
> 
> If the internet is going to be a real "think tank" I believe that 
the delete button should be in the hands of the individual and not 
handed over to a self appointed authority on the subject. If we, 
the users, continually, hand over our power to others, we will always 
be under their power. And only able to "talk the talk" of the show 
host.
> 
> As I am unable to reach bn-study through the normal channels, I 
have posted this sad situation to this group, as I know, many members 
are part of both associations, and I know from past experience that 
the moderator of this group, treats us as adults, and would think 
long and hard before banning any group member. Perhaps in the 
future, the banning of an individual should be put to the vote by the 
rest of the group, that way, it is a group decision and not an 
individual's choice. A true democray, perhaps?
> 
> Just wondering
> Cass
> 
> 
> 
> 
> nhcareyta wrote:
> Dear Carl and all
> Greetings from Perth, Australia.
> 
> Firstly, thank you for this discussion group and for maintaining 
its 
> focus on the writings of HPB and her Masters. Thank you also for 
> writing so clearly that whether HPB was right or wrong in her 
> pronouncements is inconsequential as regards the actual nature of 
> this group. Too often, those of us who focus on her and her 
teachers' 
> works as our starting and comparison point are 
> branded "fundamentalists" or "blind devotees." Nothing could be 
> further from the truth, however it seems no amount of words can 
> explain this subtlety to some.
> That said, in a posting to another group I wrote recently:
> "In saying that, and at the risk of annoying others by repeating 
> myself yet again, this does not mean to me that HPB, or her 
Mahatmas 
> for that matter, were/are all knowing beings. (They were the first 
to 
> denounce that perspective) It is merely saying that for me, she and 
> they have demonstrated an enormously profound grasp of the occult 
> science of our dimension of existence, which only deep and 
continued 
> study and practice, of the mind and heart, can hope to begin to 
> apprehend."
> 
> Carl, you wrote:
> "There are several Blavatsky groups online, and I have visited most 
> of them. I was astonished to find how HPB has been used to promote 
> all kinds of notions - New Age, neo-theosophy, spiritualism, 
> Christian sacramentalism, etc."
> 
> It is for this and other reasons that a number of us left one of 
the 
> Theosophical Societies and established an HPB/Mahatmas (hers!) 
study 
> centre for which we gave the name Theosophical Academy. We chose 
this 
> name because nothing short of continued deep study and 
contemplation 
> of their works can hope to uncover the pathway to insight into 
their 
> version of the genuine mysteries of existence in this dimension. So 
> often, students read a little, assume a lot and begin to 
misrepresent 
> and misquote her and their teachings. 
> Your recent posting, highlighting the inaccuracy of assuming HPB 
> wrote from a monist perspective, (Blake's and others' visions and 
> experiences that body and soul are identical etc) is of fundamental 
> importance from a philosophical and occult perspective. As you 
wrote, 
> she made clear distinctions between body and soul, as she did 
between 
> Parabrahman and perceptual existence (Mulaprakriti through Mahat):
> "To know itself or oneself, necessitates consciousness and 
perception 
> (both limited faculties in relation to any subject except 
Parabrahm), 
> to be cognized. Hence the "Eternal Breath which knows itself 
not." 
> Infinity cannot comprehend Finiteness. The Boundless can have no 
> relation to the bounded and the conditioned." (S.D. Stanza 2.)
> She also spoke strongly against her/their version of Theosophy as 
> validating the philosophical position of subjective idealism, where 
> all is merely a projection of mind. (Modern Idealism, Worse Than
> Materialism. [The Theosophist, Vol. XVIII, No. 1, October, 1896, 
pp. 
> 9-12] [Collected Writings Vol 8]
> These and many other points bring to mind a phrase "Theosophy is 
> everything, but not everything is Theosophy."
> Finally and once again, her and their teachings may or may not be 
> entirely accurate, but they at least deserve the greatest respect 
and 
> the deepest study as they are clearly the most profound and 
expansive 
> rendition of Theosophy to date.
> Thank you again for your work as moderator of this most important 
> group. It will be my pleasure to participate as time permits.
> Best wishes
> Nigel Carey
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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