--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "thalprin" <thalprin@y...> wrote:
>
> --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Murray Stentiford <opt-
mas@s...>
> wrote:
> > At 15:17 26/04/2005, "thalprin" <thalprin@y...>wrote:
> >
> > >Murray interesting rap I'm sure Mark and Cass will ejoy it -but-
I
> > >have no mental illness, depression/anxiety/panic attacks -
> >
> > I'm pleased to hear that you do not have any of these but in
case
> you
> > thought so, I was not making any such point. I became aware of
> this
> > discussion only yesterday, so am not speaking to stages of it
> before then.
> > However, things like EFT have had excellent results with
> depression,
> > anxiety and panic attacks, as in the water phobia case in my
last
> message.
> >
> > >My opinion is, ifn you have a problem, fix it or -yup- you have
a
> > >problem.
> >
> > And that is one of the advantages of EFT etc - they can be used
on
> oneself
> > (at your own responsibility), though it sometimes pays to have
an
> > experienced practitioner because they can help in unearthing
> obscure or
> > intense issues.
> >
> > >I'm also not particularlly interested in discussing folks'
mental
> > >health/illnesses as if it's Theosophy.
> >
> > Suit yourself, but Theosophy (in a broad sense, not some one
> author's,
> > necessarily) is a framework for approaching anything in this
> phenomenal
> > world, because of its fundamental nature. IMO, mental health
need
> not be
> > excluded from discussion on this list as long as the
Theosophical
> relevance
> > is demonstrated.
>
>
>
> Yes, I think psychology/psychiatics is an interesting field -but-
I
> don't think that mental illness is truly what the study (of
Theosphy) is about.
> For example, when it gets down to encouraging a/o abaiting sick
> people with denial and delusions efforting at using/abusing a
system
> as a means of enabling and furthering their own illnesses. That's
a
> whole different ball game.
>
> It happens alot, it's fairly common. The deluded mind a/o unfit
> mentality will often reach for straws instead of bucking up and
> fixing the problem. In these instances, these are emotional
> matters. "Oh, I hear voices, I must be a master" "Oh, I suffer
> from this/that, must be the world is quickening." Truth is much
> more likely AND most instances that the person is
> shcizo/pathological.
>
> So, no, I don't think Theosophy is nor aspires to be an enabler of
> the ill fit/ill minded.
>
The emotional a/o haughty levels kooks will stoop to to try and
protect their delusions is also sad and bothersome I think.
Honestly, I feel quite so for them when they that blind.
+It's hard to have a real discussion (let alone a fruitful debate)
with kooks as well. They kinda insist on demonstration their
ignorance/arrogance (ill wit) often with long emotional dramas and
out right rude behaviors.
>
> >
> > This isn't hard; mental illness has a whole range of aspects
that
> Theosophy
> > embraces, eg karma, the different energy bodies and principles
in
> the human
> > constitution, the potential for healing, the opportunities for
> service that
> > illness provides, the nature of incarnation and the limitations
> that it
> > imposes along with the opportunities for self-expression.
> >
>
>
>
> See above.
>
>
>
> > I don't know where you're coming from, but part of the
difficulty
> with
> > modern Theosophy, IMO, is that it has distanced itself from
> psychology for
> > reasons that were very good in the past, but are weaker today.
> >
> > Psychology in a broad sense, would cross-fertilise magnificently
> with
> > Theosophy if people who knew both would help it to happen. This
> doesn't
> > have to be unscientific, either. Too many scientists, in my
> experience,
> > fail in their adherence to scientific method by stating that if
> they can't
> > observe something with the 5 physical senses or physical
> extensions of
> > them, then it can't exist.
>
>
>
> That's hardly the point as you well know but feel free to believe
> a/o insist that you feel it is.
>
>
>
> Believe it or not, I've seen and heard this.
> > It's scientific tribalism, comparable with the worst aspects of
> religion
> > that they claim to have left behind. Thankfully, the bridge
> between science
> > and spirituality is being built from both sides these days at an
> increasing
> > rate.
>
>
>
> I see this from the other side. I myself am very level headed and
> fairly well learned AND quite spiritual as well. That is in part
> why it is so easy for me to recognize a kook when I see/hear one.
> It is the kooks in my opinion that bring most of damage to this
> effort at bridging. They unrealistic in their persuits, and
> emotional backet cases mostly, with very little sewlf control,
whom
> are self deluded about many things, including who they are and
what
> they think they know/experience. They run to these fringe studies
> a/o religions instead of seeking proper medical attention. Those
> less experieced, sadly enough, don't often have the knowledge a/o
> the understanding to properly identify so they spread their
deludion
> around and ultimately create alot of unreal expectation as they
> misguiding AND the misguide bothers me too because it is so
> completely inaccurate - it certainly takes more time to clean up
and
> resolve than it was nor ever will be worth.
>
>
>
>
> I have a degree in physics, but I see little need for the
> > theoso-phobias (new word?!) that a lot of scientists still
exhibit.
> >
>
>
> Agreed. Again, the reputation some studies have is most often
> directly correlative to the kooks whom have degraded it.
>
>
> > > I can say I'm not surprised
> > >that some of the folks who've expressed what I consider
> unrealistic
> > >idealisms to begin with are now confessing/conferring that they
> suffer
> > >from anxiety/depression, so on. These matters often walk hand
in
> > >hand.
> >
> > Indeed, and an awareness of the nature of the human shadow, in a
> Jungian
> > kind of sense, would illuminate a lot of Theosophy and
> Theosophists if they
> > would open themselves to the reality of it. It is an important
> aspect of
> > the spiritual path, to encounter one's own dark side and
discover
> how to
> > release and heal it, as appropriate to each aspect.
>
>
>
> Honestly, for some of these folks you're talking about lifetimes
> because it certainly aint happening this time around. They too
> immature, they have too little insight, they too ego and deluded
> lost already to straighten it out any time soon. So young a/o
> immature are they a/o some of these folks that you might as well
be
> comparing apples to oranges.
>
> People forget, there isn't a quick fix.
> The question we ask ourselves as we observe is just how many will
> they need/want to take down with them while they sinking while
they
> insisting they flying .
>
>
> It's quite normal to
> > have idealism as the lamp drawing one on, alongside with denser
> psychic
> > accretions from the past of one kind or another. As the latter
> come into
> > view - and often this is painful - it becomes possible to let
them
> go or
> > transmute them.
> >
>
>
> I feel deluded folks do find it painful to realize they are
> deluded. It's just much more fun to life with a giant ego
illusion
> than to sink their teeth into real study.
>
> Typical enough it can be like asking a baby to religuish a blankey.
>
> Also, as a side note, please don't assume I'm a materialist just
> because I have actual research standards, that's like a ploy for
> kooky people who've nothing better to reason.
>
>
>
> > One way to describe the path is as an approach to integration,
and
> this
> > refers to a whole huge process of self-discovery, as well as
> discovery of
> > what one is not. By integration, I mean a balanced activation of
> the
> > different aspects of our being, which can be conveniently
> summarised as
> > mental, emotional, spiritual and physical, in healthy
relationship
> to each
> > other.
>
>
>
>
> Agreed however I do not feel that a balanced view for myself is
> gonna include including kooks nonsense into my scope. I have no
> interest in setting myself up to become deluded any time soon NOR
> tomorrow.
>
>
>
> >
> > I consider EFT and many of the other energy psychology tools to
be
> > efficient ways to release people from suffering and trauma and
> limiting
> > patterns of the past, freeing the spirit within. This should
> appeal to
> > anyone with a bit of Bodhisattva in them, to those who are tired
> of hurting
> > themselves and others, and to those who might want to save a bit
> of money
> > in the health system.
> >
>
>
> Ok, whatever.
>
>
>
> > Murray
Yahoo! Groups Links
