Theos-Talk Archives (April 2005 Message tt00400)

" It will be seen that both these factors of post-mortem existence-- 
the sub-plane to which the man is carried and the degree of his 
consciousness there-- depend not in the least on the nature of his 
death, but upon the nature of his life, so that any accident, however 
sudden or terrible, can scarcely affect them. Nevertheless, there is 
reason behind the familiar old prayer of the Church: "From sudden 
death, good Lord, deliver us;" for though a sudden death does not 
necessarily affect the man's position upon the astral plane in any 
way for the worse, at least it does nothing to improve it, whereas 
the slow wasting away of the aged or the ravages of any kind of long-
continued disease are almost invariably accompanied by a considerable 
loosening and breaking up of the astral particles, so that when the 
man recovers consciousness upon the astral plane, he finds some at 
any rate of his chief work there already done for him. 
22. The 
great mental terror and disturbance which sometimes accompany 
accidental death are in themselves a very unfavourable preparation 
for the astral life; indeed, cases have been known in which such 
agitation and terror persisted after death, though that is happily 
rare. Still, the popular desire to have some time in which to prepare 
for death is not a mere superstition, but has a certain amount of 
reason at the back of it. Naturally, to anyone who is leading the 
Theosophical life it will make but little difference whether the 
transition from the physical plane to the astral comes slowly or 
quickly, since he is all the time doing his best to make as much 
progress as possible, and the object before him will remain the same 
in either case. 

23. To 
sum up then: it seems clear that death by accident does not 
necessarily involve any lengthy residence on the lowest level of the 
astral plane, though it may in one sense be said slightly to prolong 
such residence, since it deprives the victim of the opportunity of 
burning out the particles belonging to that level during the 
sufferings of a lingering disease. In the case of young children it 
is exceedingly unlikely that in their short and comparatively 
blameless young lives they will have developed much affinity for the 
lowest subdivisions of astral life; indeed, as a matter of practical 
experience they are hardly ever to be found in connection with that 
sub-plane at all. In any case, whether they die by accident or 
disease, their life on the astral plane is a comparatively short one; 
the heaven-life, though much longer, is still in reasonable 
proportion to it, and their early reincarnation follows as soon as 
the forces which they have been able to set in motion during their 
short earth-lives work themselves out, precisely as we might expect 
from our observation of the action of the same great law in the case 
of adults. "

Complete book can be read at
http://www.anandgholap.net/Inner_Life_Vol_II-CWL.htm
--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Anand Gholap" <AnandGholap@A...> 
wrote:
> 
> Mr. Leadbeater was far more advanced and so he corrected many of 
the 
> mistakes made by earlier writers. 
> --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Anand Gholap" 
<AnandGholap@A...> 
> wrote:
> > 
> > > Jerry,
> > > After Krishnamurti left TS, if all policies and focus had kept 
as 
> it
> > > was under leadership of Annie Besant then lost members would 
have
> > > been replaced by new members and TS would have remained vibrant
> > > organization.
> > > My opinion is Krishnamuti's leaving could have only temporary
> > > setback. Policies and focus should have been kept as they were
> > > earlier.
> > > My lodge has very young membership of very qualified people, 
total
> > > 110 members. This despite management's policy of not 
advertizing.
> > > Apart from that we have displayed Krishnamurti's photo in the 
> Lodge.
> > > Most members respect both Theosophy and consider Krishnamurti as
> > > World-Teacher. They study mostly AB and CWL's books and like 
them
> > > very much.
> > > Fear that Krishnamurti's references in books and elsewhere cause
> > > problems for Theosophical movement is not right. There are lot 
of
> > > things to learn from how K was found, raised and how he later 
> became
> > > a great teacher as predicted almost twenty years in advance by 
Mr.
> > > Leadbeater and Besant.
> > > In entire history of TS golden days for the Theosophical 
Society 
> > were
> > > when Annie Besant was President.AB and CWL wrote very high 
quality
> > > literature. That was received around the world very well. 
Result 
> was
> > > membership was all time high of more than 45000. If we continue 
to
> > > focus on same literature it will again produce very positive 
> > results,
> > > this time on much greater scale because other conditions have 
> become
> > > much more favorable.
> > > Anand Gholap
> > > 
> > > 
> > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Anand Gholap" 
> > <AnandGholap@A...> 
> > > wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > Jerry,
> > > > After Krishnamurti left TS, if all policies and focus had 
kept 
> as 
> > > it 
> > > > was under leadership of Annie Besant then lost members would 
> have 
> > > > been replaced by new members and TS would have remained 
vibrant 
> > > > organization. 
> > > > My opinion is Krishnamuti's leaving could have only temporary 
> > > > setback. Policies and focus should have been kept as they 
were 
> > > > earlier.
> > > > My lodge has very young membership of very qualified people, 
> > total 
> > > > 110 members. This despite management's policy of not 
> advertizing. 
> > > > Apart from that we have displayed Krishnamurti's photo in the 
> > > Lodge. 
> > > > Most members respect both Theosophy and consider Krishnamurti 
> as 
> > > > World-Teacher. They study mostly AB and CWL's books and like 
> them 
> > > > very much. 
> > > > Fear that Krishnamurti's references in books and elsewhere 
> cause 
> > > > problems for Theosophical movement is not right. There are 
lot 
> of 
> > > > things to learn from how K was found, raised and how he later 
> > > became 
> > > > a great teacher as predicted almost twenty years in advance 
by 
> > Mr. 
> > > > Leadbeater and Besant. 
> > > > In entire history of TS golden days for the Theosophical 
> Society 
> > > were 
> > > > when Annie Besant was President.AB and CWL wrote very high 
> > quality 
> > > > literature. That was received around the world very well. 
> Result 
> > > was 
> > > > membership was all time high of more than 45000. If we 
continue 
> > to 
> > > > focus on same literature it will again produce very positive 
> > > results, 
> > > > this time on much greater scale because other conditions have 
> > > become 
> > > > much more favorable.
> > > > Anand Gholap 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Jerry Hejka-Ekins 
> <jjhe@c...> 
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > Anand,
> > > > > 
> > > > > Perhaps, the best way to, at least, partially answer your 
> > > question 
> > > > is 
> > > > > from an historical perspective. When Krishnamurti closed 
the 
> > > Order 
> > > > of 
> > > > > the Star and left the Theosophical Society (1930), the 
> > leadership 
> > > > was, 
> > > > > for a time left "flat footed" so to speak. Jinarajadasa's 
> > > > comments in 
> > > > > the ES material published at that time is quite revealing. 
> CJ 
> > > was 
> > > > quite 
> > > > > incredulous that after pretty much growing up with K. and 
> with 
> > > > Nitya and 
> > > > > George Arundale forming sort of an inner group under CWL, 
> > > > Krishnamurti 
> > > > > was throwing all of that aside. K's early public talks 
after 
> > > > leaving 
> > > > > the TS were very discounting of the Teachings and of the 
> > Masters. 
> > > > > 
> > > > > When George Arundale became President in 1934, he took the 
> tack 
> > > of 
> > > > > ignoring Krishnamurti and tried to put the TS on a 
different 
> > > > tract. 
> > > > > Basically Arundale took the public stand that Theosophy is 
> > > > everything 
> > > > > and anything that the public wanted it to be. If the 
public 
> > was 
> > > > > interested in the arts, he made the arts Theosophy. If 
they 
> > were 
> > > > > interested in politics, he made politics Theosophy. It was 
a 
> > > very 
> > > > busy 
> > > > > time of printing tens of thousands of pamphlets and flyers 
> all 
> > > > devoid of 
> > > > > meningful content. It was also the beginning of the editing 
> of 
> > > > > Theosophical texts so as to remove references to K. and 
> others 
> > > > > embarrassments to the TS. While all of this reforming 
> > Theosophy 
> > > > for 
> > > > > the public was going on, the ES was still very strong and 
> > > > maintained 
> > > > > their own traditions. So, there became two Theosophies. 
One 
> > for 
> > > > the 
> > > > > public, and one for the insiders. In other words, for the 
> > > public, 
> > > > > Theosophy was anything they wanted it to be. The problem is 
> > that 
> > > > when 
> > > > > Theosophy became everything, it did not escape the 
attention 
> of 
> > > > most 
> > > > > enquirers that Theosophy is then--nothing. By the time 
> > Arundale 
> > > > died in 
> > > > > 1945, the membership of the TS had fallen to the lowest 
> level, 
> > > and 
> > > > has 
> > > > > never really recovered.
> > > > > 
> > > > > When I joined TSA in 1963, Theosophy was not a popular 
> > subject. 
> > > > The TS 
> > > > > members were all very elderly, and the Lodges were filled 
> with 
> > > > Victorian 
> > > > > furniture. Most of the members who were the active 
workers 
> > 20s 
> > > > and 30s 
> > > > > were still alive and made up most of the membership. I 
> > remember 
> > > > > Catherine Mays, Dora and Fritz Kunz, the Layton's etc. 
> > Everyone 
> > > > was 
> > > > > excited when I joined because I was "fresh blood" as they 
> > said. 
> > > > But I 
> > > > > was also of a very different generation than theirs. I 
would 
> > > knock 
> > > > them 
> > > > > off balance by asking probing questions, challenged the 
> status 
> > > > quo. I 
> > > > > saw nothing wrong with modern music and modern culture, 
while 
> > on 
> > > > the 
> > > > > other hand, members believed that Jazz was created by Black 
> > > > Magicians. 
> > > > > You could imagine what they though of Rock n Roll. As the 
> 60's 
> > > > > progressed into the psychedelic age, with hippies, Tim 
Leary, 
> > > Alan 
> > > > > Watts, and the Beatles, more people closer to my age began 
to 
> > > drift 
> > > > into 
> > > > > TS, but the TSA leadership did not know how to deal with 
them.
> > > > > 
> > > > > I remember those early Lodge lectures. Old timers would 
give 
> > > talks 
> > > > > throwing out phrases like "the inner government of the 
world" 
> > > > and "the 
> > > > > path to the Masters" and "the Great White Brotherhood" but 
> they 
> > > > were 
> > > > > singing to the choir. They did not bother to explain to 
> newbys 
> > > > what 
> > > > > they were talking about. There was no viable educational 
> > program 
> > > > then. 
> > > > > By the late 60's Headquarters responded by devising a 
series 
> of 
> > > > monthly 
> > > > > letters for new members. By that time, I already was well 
> into 
> > > my 
> > > > own 
> > > > > reading and consequently found their letters, like their 
> > > pamphlets 
> > > > > rather devoid of meaningful content. 
> > > > > 
> > > > > When Dora Kunz became President in the late 70s she began 
to 
> > > > initiate a 
> > > > > policy to built up the Lodges and broke a long standing 
> > tradition 
> > > > by 
> > > > > inviting young members who were talented but not ES members 
> to 
> > > > volunteer 
> > > > > to work at Olcott. The membership under her approached to 
> > nearly 
> > > > 8,000 
> > > > > at one point. When she left in 1986, the new management 
> began 
> > to 
> > > > > dismantle and undermine everything she accomplished. The 
new 
> > > tactic 
> > > > was 
> > > > > centralization. There was a lot of in-fighting and some 
> nasty 
> > > > > marginalization of some active members who did not agree 
with 
> > the 
> > > > new 
> > > > > program. A lot of people left the TS in disgust, and at 
the 
> > same 
> > > > time, 
> > > > > members from the Arundale days were passing away. When 
John 
> > > Algeo 
> > > > > became President, TSA membership dropped to under 4,000 at 
> one 
> > > > > point--about 1/2 of the maximum membership under Dora 
Kunz. 
> > > > > 
> > > > > So, what you have now in TSA is a general public, most of 
> whom 
> > do 
> > > > not 
> > > > > belong to a Lodge and do not have the support of a study 
> group 
> > > for 
> > > > the 
> > > > > study of Theosophy. The classic texts are available, but 
> they 
> > > are 
> > > > in 
> > > > > an edited form. For those interested in history, there is 
> > > a "party 
> > > > > line" history that is taught, but it is not very 
> comprehensive--
> > > and 
> > > > very 
> > > > > misleading. While TSA is beginning to promote Study 
Courses, 
> > > what 
> > > > they 
> > > > > teach is a very sanitized version of Theosophy. It is what 
> > they 
> > > > want 
> > > > > the members to know, and nothing more. 
> > > > > 
> > > > > This is not a complete answer, but I hope it gives you a 
> > > > direction. 
> > > > > Perhaps, in future discussions, we can develop some of the 
> > themes 
> > > > which 
> > > > > I only hinted at here.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Best
> > > > > Jerry
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > Anand Gholap wrote:
> > > > > 
> > > > > >Jerry,
> > > > > >What could be the reasons according to you for members not 
> > > having 
> > > > > >much knowledge of Theosophy?
> > > > > >Anand Gholap
> > > > > >
> > > > > >--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Jerry Hejka-Ekins 
> > <jjhe@c...> 
> > > > > >wrote:
> > > > > > 
> > > > > >
> > > > > >>Anand,
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>He we agree. I also believed that books should be 
> reprinted 
> > as 
> > > > > >> 
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >they 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > >
> > > > > >>were left by the authors. I would not even bother to 
> change 
> > > the 
> > > > > >> 
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >English 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > >
> > > > > >>spellings. However, I don't have any occult reasons for 
> this 
> > > > > >> 
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >opinion. 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > >
> > > > > >>I simply believe that authors ought to be allowed to 
stand 
> or 
> > > > fall 
> > > > > >> 
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >based 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > >
> > > > > >>upon what they actually wrote. I have to hand it to 
ULT 
> > for 
> > > > > >> 
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >being the 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > >
> > > > > >>only Theosophical organization which reprinted 
Blavatsky's 
> > and 
> > > > > >> 
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >Judge's 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > >
> > > > > >>writing in their original form, while other organizations 
> > were 
> > > > > >> 
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >changing 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > >
> > > > > >>them or allowing them to go out of print. Of course, ULT 
> did 
> > > not 
> > > > > >>reprint Besant and Leadbeater's writings, but that would 
> have 
> > > > been 
> > > > > >>outside of their mission statement to have done so. 
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>There was an excellent article done a few years ago by 
> > Gregory 
> > > > > >> 
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >Tillett 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > >
> > > > > >>for the Theosophical History journal which reviewed the 
> > changes 
> > > > the 
> > > > > >>Adyar TS had made in Besant's and Leadbeater's books over 
> the 
> > > > > >> 
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >years. 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > >
> > > > > >>The article was reprinted in the ACT newsletter. It 
would 
> be 
> > > > nice 
> > > > > >> 
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >if 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > >
> > > > > >>Drs Tillett and Santucci would permit this article to be 
> put 
> > > > > >> 
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >online. I 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > >
> > > > > >>think it is a very important article, because, people who 
> buy 
> > > > > >> 
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >current 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > >
> > > > > >>editions of their books are rarely aware that they have 
> been 
> > > > edited 
> > > > > >> 
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >in 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > >
> > > > > >>any significant way. 
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>Jerry
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>Anand Gholap wrote:
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> 
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>>Jerry,
> > > > > >>> 
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> 
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>>>As you see, I did not say that this material *contains* 
> > > > writings 
> > > > > >>>> 
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >of AB 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > >
> > > > > >>>> 
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>>and CWL, but is based upon their ideas and uses their 
> > > > terminology.
> > > > > >>>> 
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>> 
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>My opinion on this is books should be printed exactly as 
> > they 
> > > > > >>>originally appeared without abridgement. For printing 
> > largest 
> > > > > >>> 
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >edition 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > >
> > > > > >>>of the book should be taken. e.g. Masters and the Path 
was 
> > > > > >>> 
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >enlarged by 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > >
> > > > > >>>Mr. Leadbeater himself and so for printing this largest 
> > > edition 
> > > > > >>> 
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >should 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > >
> > > > > >>>be taken. Only spelling may be changed to suit current 
US 
> > > > English. 
> > > > > >>>e.g. realisation (old British) would become realization. 
I 
> > am 
> > > > > >>> 
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >totally 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > >
> > > > > >>>against making more changes. 
> > > > > >>>For making study course also original books of Annie 
> Besant 
> > > and 
> > > > > >>>Leadbeater, written in their own language, should be 
> > > > recommended. 
> > > > > >>> 
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >Not 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > >
> > > > > >>>only English of AB and CWL is among the best even by 
> today's 
> > > > > >>> 
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >standard 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > >
> > > > > >>>but there are occult reasons for recommending their 
> original 
> > > > > >>> 
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >writing. 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > >
> > > > > >>>Anand Gholap
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>>Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> 
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> 
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 
> > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 
> > > > > >