Theos-Talk Archives (March 2005 Message tt00614)

>Daniel H. Caldwell wrote:

> In an article in THE THEOSOPHIST, June 
1919, C.W. Leadbeater wrote:

<<"...we, among ourselves, do not think 
it is necessary that anyone should 
intercede for us with God, because we 
hold that God is a loving Father, that 
He is already doing the best that
can possibly be done under the 
circumstances for every one of his 
creatures....">>>>>>>

But by declining some sort of 
"God-related" (as in 
Churchly/orthodoxical...) "intercession" 
on one's behalf, wouldn't there be a 
chance, (in some cases, maybe ...), that 
such a person might tend to equate "God" 
with some variant of some kind of 
"Higher Self" that even K.H. might, 
(maybe ...), find approvable in some 
sense/context ... Not that I'm 
suggesting that there might not be 
interpretations "re Higher Self" that 
might not be seen to be all over the 
map, by whoever, but seeing as if or 
inasmuchasif this world is seen as 
somewhat less than perfect to begin 
with, "in a sense," and ... (not that 
one person's "in a sense" might not be 
another's whatever).

Daniel then went on with: <<Compare the 
above [from Leadbeater] with the 
following from Master K.H.:

"Neither our philosophy nor ourselves 
believe in a God, least of all in one 
whose pronoun necessitates a capital 
H....we deny God both as philosophers 
and as Buddhists...."

"You speak of an intelligent and good -- 
(the attribute is rather unfortunately 
chosen) - Father, a moral guide and 
governor of the universe and man....how 
do you or how can you know that your God 
is all wise, omnipotent and love-ful, 
when everything in nature, physical
and moral, proves such a being, if he 
does exist, to be quite the reverse of 
all you say of him? Strange delusion and 
one which seems to overpower your very 
intellect."

"I dread the appearance in print of our 
philosophy as expounded by Mr. 
H[ume]....He makes of us Agnostics!!
We do not believe in God because so far 
we have no proof, etc. This is 
preposterously ridiculous....He says
that people will not accept the whole 
truth; that unless we humour them with a 
hope that there may be a 'loving
Father and creator of all in heaven' our 
philosophy will be rejected a priori. 
In such a case the less such idiots hear
of our doctrines the better for both. If 
they do not want the whole truth and 
nothing but the truth, they are welcome. 
But never will they find us -- (at any 
rate) -- compromising with, and 
pandering to public prejudices."

[Note: One reader on this forum has 
previously questioned whether a true 
"Master" would use such a word as 
"idiots". But one definition of idiots 
is simply: ignorant or foolish or
stupid persons.]

When C.W. Leadbeater wrote that "we hold 
that God is a loving Father", was he 
[C.W.L.] "humouring" people with a 
theistic hope??? Was Leadbeater 
"compromisng with, and pandering to 
public prejudices"? Daniel
http://hpb.cc>>>>

Just based on that short paragraph from 
Leadbeater (which, alone, might be 
misleading in some sense, to extent, 
maybe ...) seems to me as if Leadbeater 
might be interpreted as both "humoring 
with God" and urging independence from 
intercessions at the same time (to some 
extent ...), but he seems to be leaving 
open (at least doesn't spell out enough 
in that paragraph, seems to me ...) 
whether or not one might want to 
"intercede" (and how ...) "with God" 
(however defined ...) all on one's own 
... or "mostly on one's own" ... or 
"somewhat one one's own" ... though he 
seems to be saying or "interceding re 
God" inasmuchas that kind of 
saying/interceding is interpreted as 
"God is a loving Father" (to start with 
...); and (to quote Leadbeater again): 
<<that He is already doing the best that 
can possibly be done under the 
circumstances for every one of his 
creatures...>> So I also tend to see 
Leadbeater as "interceding" in the sense 
that he's defining "God" for ... whoever 
...

Anyway, I tend to see K.H.'s comments 
"more interesting" (in case you were 
wondering ...) (quotes per esoterics 
...) than Leadbeater's comments.

^:-/ ...
Mauri