Theos-Talk Archives (March 2005 Message tt00218)

--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "W.Dallas TenBroeck" 
<dalval14@e...> wrote:
Hallo Dallis,
>From now I can cut and past and should directly place what I have 
seen from HPB into the mail.
For now I need my rememberance and that is a healthy part of the 
little brainfunction, sitting at the backside of the head.
Now I shall put some notes between your answer.




> Mar 12, 2005
> 
>  
> 
> RE: Solar and Lunar as Higher and Lower Mind 
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> Dear C and Friends:
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> I have not read anything on this from HPB that makes it clear. But 
>if you
> have any, could give me the references? So if I say anything, it 
>may be
> purely inference based on principles I am aware of, and largely 
>speculation
> on my part.
> 
>  
> 
> First. I am sure that the economy of Nature has placed relevant
> analogies and correspondences throughout her systems, including 
>ours. These
> correspondences enable and facilitate communication and ideas - to 
>travel at
> incredible speeds -- wherein distance and time are not the same 
delaying
> factors we encounter in our daily encountered physical world.
> 
>  
> 
> Second. This enables communication between the 7 principles of 
>man and
> also their communication through the physical brain (actings as a
> switchboard), so that there can be an outward expression to others 
of them -
> by speech, writing or any other means. 
> 
>  
> 
> Third. Between incoming sense impressions and ideas, and those 
which the
> Real EGO inside and behind the brain generates and chooses to 
>express -
> there is an intense but almost immediate activity and response that
> evaluates the incoming, and then, responds appropriately to them as 
>outgoing
> thoughts, feelings words and actions. There are it seems two areas 
>of
> contrasting reflection, consideration and response. And these two 
>are
> presided over by the HIGHER SELF (the ATMA) This duality has been 
>named in
> THEOSOPHY BUDDHI and KAMA. (Or: (1) Wisdom / Idealism, and (2) 
>Desire /
> Self-interested emotion.

Chr:Kama Manas= humansoul
Kama Manas + buddhi = Higher mind = Spirit soul
Higher mind + buddhi = Atma
But I think this is to simple for said.
 
>  
> 
> This condition inside of us is like you or me when we use a 
>computer - the
> computer is like the brain, it is an instrument - a switchboard. 
> 
>  
> 
> It receives incoming e-mail and after consideration the thought of 
>the
> correspondent is written and sent.  
> 
>  
> 
> We all know the computer does not do this on its own, it has not 
>the kind of
> individual or personal consciousness that enables it to act 
>INDEPENDENTLY of
> human control. Thus all responsibility is focussed on the unseen 
>and
> intangible controlling human factor.  
> 
>  
> 
> The electronic computer is recognized as a tool, but the electronic 
>activity
> of the brain is mistakenly identified with the creation of thought 
>and
> decisions. We have not yet developed (as a part of our independent 
>and
> manipulative capacity) the tools necessary to penetrate behind the 
>material
> surface-operations of the physical brain, although all 
>physiologists and
> psychologists have received strong evidence of that existence. 
> 
>  
> 
> It is this controlling human factor we have to study to be able to 
>advance
> in occultism. Occultism is a knowledge of the secret powers and 
>factors of
> the MIND and of the reincarnating immortal EGO [BUDDHI-MANAS 
>presided over
> by the HIGHER SELF -- ATMA].
> 
>  
> 
> We may say that occultism is the study of the development in the 
>human mind
> (KAMA-MANAS) - or that which we call our own conscious, 
>intelligent, mental
> and emotional workings -- using our LOWER MIND as a tool for 
>observation and
> strictly honest, accurate and impersonal measurement. 
> 
>  
> 
> Any IDEAL (related to the principle BUDDHI) is of course an 
>impersonal and a
> universal one, so that no isolated aspect of self-interest can 
>possibly
> enter into it. In this process selfish and isolating emotion and 
>desire are
> carefully separated from impersonal thought and universal, 
>practical
> idealism.
> 
>  
> 
> Fourth. It is said that everyone in life tries to: "put their 
>best foot
> forward." And whether it is the right or left side of the brain 
>is not
> important; but, the quality of our motive is. 

Chr:If one only uses his right side of the brain, we have a tyrant.
For sure there needs to be a balance between left and right!
Both sides needs to be in HARMONY.
Most of the people cannot look objectively to themselves.
>  
> 
> You will find, I think that motive is the most important aspect of 
>our life.
> Most don't realize this, and so, little importance has been placed 
>on
> determining what motive is chosen, and whether there is value in 
>using it to
> shape our choices or making recommendations.
> 
>  
> 
> Five We live in a materialistic civilization and its 
>influences are a
> part of our lives - as you observe in the relations of parents and 
>children
> and school activities.
> 
>  
> 
> One thing we are asked to observe is that between the astral and the
> physical planes and principles, there is an inversion or a reversal.
> 
>  
> 
> The phenomena of activity registered in regard to volition and 
>thought in
> our human brains may be located in many parts of the Brain. Just as 
>many
> parts of a computer are needed to coordinate a sensible response. 
> 
>  
> 
> Some experiments tend to locate response and activity to the left 
>or right
> sides of the average brain. ( What about a "yogi's" responses ?)  
>Men's
> response areas and women's response areas in the brain may differ, 
>but the
> significance is still unknown.


Chr:It is NOT unknown, by man and woman it works like a mirror.! 
>  
> 
> The whole area is experimental and the reports we receive 
>illustrate the
> nature of trips into discovery land. 
> 
Chr:So, I don't think so.And I dón't like experiments, cause I know.
And don't need to experiment what I know.
When time is comming I will see!
 
> 
> But there is evidence that all this has been done ages ago. I have 
>always
> noticed that the construction of our physiological organs and their
> activities have been arranged by Nature (the Universe, and its 
>secret laws
> and creations) far earlier than our probing and recent observations 
>have
> revealed.

Chr:Yes, the human needs to master the worlds inside him or her.
To mastery the physic worlds and the Universal, because they are 
Inside US. 
>  
> 
> Next: It is apparent that ancient Indian psycho-physiologists far 
>long ago
> had determined certain correlations. But what we have been able to 
>read in
> the nature of translated information from them is to be carefully 
>verified.
> The Vedas and other scriptures of ancient India will be found to 
>conceal
> several codes wherein truths and knowledge is concealed in several 
>ways.
> They cannot be interpreted literally. 
> 
>  
> 
> There is large gap between modern methods of gross physical 
>observation and
> measurement and the ancient India approach using the keenly honed 
>and
> carefully directed Mind, as a non-destructive tool, that could be 
>directed
> in a harmless way to examine, not only the physiological actions 
>that arise
> from thought / feelings, but, they carefully distinguished between 
>the two
> -- which modern psycho-physiology does not understand or admit to 
>in the
> rigorous way the ancients did.
> 
>  
> 
> In other words the 7 principles of Man and their interaction has 
>not been
> first admitted as being profoundly causal. But even more 
>important, the
> concept that Man is an immortal MONAD (ATMA-BUDDHI), and each 
>incarnation
> is just a step forward, a "day at school," needs to be taken as a 
>primary
> base.  
> 
>  
> 
> Prior even to that, one has to assume that the commencement of all
> "evolution" and "development" gives evidence of:  
> 
>  
> 
> (1) the descent of SPIRIT into matter, 
>   
> 
> (2) the development of a virtuous MIND, and, 
> 
>  
> 
> (3) the MATTER being thus spiritualized and made pure by self-
>effort, is
> raised out of the domination of KAMA (selfish desire) into the 
>estate of
> BUDDHI-MANAS (the spiritual mind) of the MAHATMA.
> 
>  
> 
> It is said that the Mahatmas were once men such as we are, and they
> graduated from the "School of Life" ages ago, and remain as our 
>friends,
> Elder Brothers and instructors alive on Earth today. 
> 
>  
> 
> THEOSOPHY would say that one has to learn, first of all, 
>the "spiritual
> heredity" of man's physiological origins, and then when that has 
>been
> grasped, an observation of the part played by emotion and desire 
(Kama) has
> to be identified.
> 
>  
> 
> Finally, the vista of investigation would seem to demand that the
> investigator or scientist be able to act in harmony with the 
>patient in a
> non-destructive fashion. To achieve this, the psychological areas we
> presently classify (generally and still very grossly) of thought, 
>will and
> feeling can be more carefully probed (following ancient methods) and
> reinterpreted in the present.
> 
>  
> 
> There are NO short-cuts to this ancient and time-tested method.  
>The person
> doing the testing" has first, themselves to become pure of motive 
i.e.:
> unselfish and universal). 
> 
Chr:Of course!  
> 
> We notice that there is a kind of vainglorious motive activating 
>most
> scientific research whereby the urge to be the first to describe or
> demonstrate one or other of the installations of OLD NATURE is 
>exposed.   
> 
>  
> 
> That is unessential in reality, as a use of any such information 
>can lead to
> abuse in the hands of those who know little or nothing of man's 
>complete
> nature -- starting with the IMMORTAL MONAD in each human, as the 
>CAUSAL
> BEING.  
> 
>  
> 
> Reincarnation as a process, and the gradual schooling of every 
>human being
> as the intention and objective of Nature, has to be seen, 
>understood and
> admitted. If this is not done on an impersonal and universal basis 
>nothing
> of practical value will ever emerge.
> 
Chr:And that is allright.  
> 
> Such activity, either by self-will (What is that? What is the 
>motive? ) or
> from external stimulus (to be most carefully defined as to quality 
and
> patient personality history) needs to be classified and 
>identified.  
> 
>  
> 
> I have always felt that the division of left-brain and right-brain 
>was
> arbitrary -- a rough consideration but not to be interpreted as 
>causal in
> any way.  

Chr:We have both in the physical body and not for nothing!There needs 
to be Harmony,equilibrium, between the brains of the lower parts, the 
square( 4 powers of Nature) and the higher triade needs to be 
linked , all in the way of growing in consciousness.Not by forcing, 
but in a natural way.So No drugs.

>In our current system of observation and measurement we are
> observing effects, not CAUSES. We are, so to speak, observing the 
>electronic
> actions of the 'brain-computer in use.'
> 
Chr:That is why people lose consciousness and recover(or not). 
> 
> The ancient science of psychology and its relation to physiology in 
Indian
> Literature seems largely to relate to the Vedas and commentaries 
>thereon.
> 
>  
> 
> Therefore our use of specific words (not fully defined) designating 
>the
> parts of the human psychology, devised and used by ancient wise men 
(and
> retranslated by persons who were NOT HPB) is for the present a 
puzzle for
> all of us.
> 
Chr: Times goes on and HPB give good lectures for grandmothers and 
grandfathers.  
> 
> I find it difficult to make specific responses to your inquiry, as 
>I do not
> yet have such knowledge. And were I to obtain it, I would be most 
>careful.
> Wouldn't you?

Chr:Yes, I use my eyes,as far as I can.
> 
>  
> 
> How can anyone have "happiness" without wisdom and knowledge of 
>what it is
> right to do? Where do we secure a true knowledge of the essentials 
>of
> "right livelihood?" We have the "Ten Commandments." Do we 
>practice them
> rigorously? Here is a simpler rendition:
> 
Chr:I know the bible out of my head ; on basicschool the teachers 
read it for us and we listened.We have learned to listen well!
No speaking and no questions for I think half an hour.
They use the stories that tells something on moral life.
Nothing more. No steeling-no killing etc.
But nothing about miracles they teach us. 
> Kill not -- for Pity's sake -- and lest ye slay
> The meanest thing upon its upward way.
> 
>  
> 
> Give freely and receive, but take from none
> By greed, or force or fraud, what is his own.
> 
>  
> 
> Bear not false witness, slander not, nor lie;
> Truth is the speech of inward purity.
> 
>  
> 
> Shun drugs and drinks which work the wit abuse;
> Clear minds, clean bodies, need no Soma juice.
> 
>  
> 
> Touch not thy neighbor's wife, neither commit
> Sins of the flesh unlawful and unfit.
> 
>  
> 
> On Education, I refer you to HPB's The KEY TO THEOSOPHY 
> 
>  
> 
> Here is a small portion of it:
> 
>  
> 
> "The best -- i. e., the most truth-loving, philanthropic, and 
honest -- of
> our Fellows were, and are, Agnostics and Atheists (disbelievers in a
> personal God). But there are no free-thinking boys and girls, and 
generally
> early training will leave its mark behind in the shape of a cramped 
and
> distorted mind. 
> 
>  
> 
> A proper and sane system of education should produce the most 
vigorous and
> liberal mind, strictly trained in logical and accurate thought, and 
not in
> blind faith. How can you ever expect good results, while you 
pervert the
> reasoning faculty of your children by bidding


I never learn my son bidding for anything, only try to learn him to 
be a healthy and contented boy.



them believe in the miracles
> of the Bible on Sunday, while for the six other days of the week 
you teach
> them that such things are scientifically impossible? 

Chr:Her we have groups of churches where they on sunday learn not to 
steel and a day later that people doing things you would not believe!
Also Roman catholics go to church, incence for the mist and 
purification and outside that people go to the pubs drinking beer and 
other things to have for the rest of the day a behaviour like an 
animal.
>  
> 
> ENQUIRER. What would you have, then? 
> 
>  
> 
> THEOSOPHIST. If we had money, we would found schools which would 
>turn out
> something else than reading and writing candidates for starvation. 
Children
> should above all be taught self-reliance, love for all men, 
>altruism, mutual
> charity, and more than anything else, to think and reason for 
>themselves. 
> 
Chr: As child we were very altruistic, but later you come in the 
world of theology and materialistic economy and destruction, look to 
the hero's.
> 
> We would reduce the purely mechanical work of the memory to an 
absolute
> minimum, and devote the time to the development and training of the 
inner
> senses, faculties and latent capacities. 
> 
>  
> 
> We would endeavour to deal with each child as a unit, and to 
educate it so
> as to produce the most harmonious and equal unfoldment of its 
powers, in
> order that its special aptitudes should find their full natural 
development.
> 
> 
>  
> 
> We should aim at creating free men and women, free
> intellectually, free morally, unprejudiced in all respects, and 
above all
> things, unselfish. And we believe that much if not all of this 
could be
> obtained by proper and truly theosophical education. " Key, 
pp. 270-1
> 
>  
> 
> ---------------------------------------------
> 
>  
> 
> I hope this proves to be of some help.
> 
  
> 
> Best wishes,
> 
>  
> 
> Dallas
> 
I hope I have made something clear!
Christina 
> 
>  
> 
> ==================================
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> 
> From: christinalee
> 
> Sent: Saturday, March 12, 2005 5:42 AM
> 
> To: 
> 
> Subject: Solar and Lunar as Higher and Lower Mind (Dallas)
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> Hallo Dallas,
> 
>  
> 
> I think I found the corresponding factor in the Solar Higher Mind 
> 
> takes part in the Right Brain department and is corresponding with 
> 
> the SUN in West which is the Left eye. That all needs to be in 
balance 
> 
> with the Lunar Lower Mind in the part of the Left brain part and 
> 
> corresponds to East Moon and the Right eye.
> 
>  
> 
> The brain parts are working crosswise on the eyes.
> 
>  
> 
> In other words the Right side of the brain controls the Left side 
of 
> 
> the body.( see Roger Sperry's findings in this= though still in the 
> 
> initial stages, shows each side of the brain handles a completely 
> 
> opposite but complementary mode of consciousness = very impotent 
for 
> 
> a Yogi.
> 
>  
> 
> The circuits of the brain are based on Ida and Pingala, 
consciousness 
> 
> or knowledge and action or physical energy. We see Ida and Pingala 
at 
> 
> all Three Major levels of the Nervous system..
> 
>  
> 
> Also there is the difference in Man's Ida and Pingala and Woman's. 
Also 
> 
> crossed Left and Right.
> 
>  
> 
> So if the schools learn children to use both brain parts, the 
> 
> individual can explore his own balance as strain, exertion and 
relax. In 
> 
> our country some schools use to do this, but not looking to the 
> 
> person. All have to sit and to listen and all are pushed in the 
same 
> 
> way of discipline. From there you make robots of them and 
workaholics 
> 
> and the competition factor, to be better than the others and that 
> 
> gives materialistic way of living and that makes unhappy!
> 
>  
> 
> If we say competition is good, for all needs to be some best, but 
the 
> 
> others have other best qualities. So even there needs to be harmony.
> 
> As you play volleyball you needs a good team and you have by 
changing 
> 
> the place.
> 
>  
> 
> I see the best with my son, he have his own drawing book and 
paintings to
> make and use it when he wants.
> 
>  
> 
> So if there is to much brainstorming he can relax in the creative 
way. And
> from there I can see his development.
> 
>  
> 
> The beginning of a better world starts with the teachings of the
> fundamentals for the development in happiness. As well as young and 
adults.
> The young ones have nothing on a adult teacher, who is not aware of 
that.
> The same applies for parents.
> 
>  
> 
> Learning and listening and relaxation(painting, drawing, building 
(Knex) and
> all kinds of art.)
> 
>  
> 
> Knowledge and Creativity.
> 
>  
> 
> So why the parents from now have not learned this?
> 
>  
> 
> Where we can learn better than in a non materialistic kind of 
school!
> 
>  
> 
> Vr Gr Christina
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]