Theos-Talk Archives (February 2005 Message tt00752)

Maybe, if one substitutes the LAW whenever the word LORD is used in 
theosophical writing, everything said might become more understandable.

Feb 23 2005

Dear Friend:

RE: Manas and SVABHAVAT

You write: 

">Svabhava. HPB personifies this as Lord Svabhavat in the SD. 

Svabhava is the polar opposite to sunyata which is usually translated as
emptiness. The nondual Monad, alias our original mind or naked mind, is
svabhava while its "rays" are sunyata. And yes, this is a model.<

----If sunyata is translated as emptiness, then perhaps
absence is compatible. Either way, presence would seem to
define the polar opposite. Just a thought.----"

I am curious as to where HPB in the SECRET DOCTRINE calls SVABHAVAT "Lord
?" 

She always seems to qualify this term so as to avoid it being taken for a
"Personal God." [NOT THE UNIVERSAL One S D I 88 ]

I do find the following:

S D I 52 ("concealed" lord), [concealed may mean "inner" ?]

S D I 85 & 333 ("self-existent" lord) 

One might ask what is "self-existent" ? 

Are we, as mind-beings, not all "self-existent?" 

Is there an aspect in us that is of SWABHAVA ? 


I find also the following helpful references: 


SVABHAVAT (Skt) Self-Existent [as a Cosmic force? ] 

ACTIVE CONDITION of essence I 3-4 
Buddhistic mulaprakriti (root-matter) I 61 
Devamatri (Mother of the Gods) & I 53 
dual root of all things I 46 
emanates noumenon of matter I 84 
Father-Mother I 60, 83, 98n 
gods generated by I 571; II 115 
manifested work of, is karma I 634-5 
noumenon of ether I 671 
PLASTIC ESSENCE OF ALL THINGS I 61, 98 &n 
purusha-prakriti I 83 
secondary stage I 46 
sends Fohat [intelligent electricity ? ] to harden atoms I 85 
Svayambhu & I 52 
various names for I 98 &n

--------------------------

S D I 98-9
"Svabhavat is the mystic Essence, the plastic root of physical Nature -
"Numbers" when manifested; the Number, in its Unity of Substance, on the
highest plane. The name is of Buddhist use and a Synonym for the four-fold
Anima Mundi, the Kabalistic "Archetypal World," from whence proceed the
"Creative, Formative, and the Material Worlds"; the Scintillae or Sparks, -
the various other worlds contained in the last three. The Worlds are all
subject to Rulers or Regents - Rishis and Pitris with the Hindus, Angels
with the Jews and Christians, Gods, with the Ancients in general. " S D
I 98-9

---------------------------------------


SELF-EXISTENT. See also Svayambhuva

absolute divine essence I 56. 88 II 242 &n 
Atma-bhu or the II 176, 578 
Heavenly Man & II 128 
LORD: I 52 (concealed lord), 85 & 333 ("self-existent lord) 
NOT THE UNIVERSAL One: I 88 
One, Reality I 2, 18 
projected their SHADOWS II 242-3 [ Applied to mankind ?]

[Courtesy THEOSOPHICAL UNIVERSITY PRESS , Pasadena]

May I offer the following for consideration?



ARE THERE DUAL EGOS IN MAN ?


We seem to have in each of us two (2) Egos: the Higher and the Lower. 

And yet, we function as though there was only ONE CENTER OF CONSCIOUSNESS
that operates in us. 

I think it is important to realize, that the REAL PERCEIVER within is aware
of several planes or "principal divisions of his own nature." He / it can
direct its attention (focus)to anyone of these. It can make choices. 

Broadly, can we not say that (1) there is the EMOTIONAL nature in which may
be seen as our desires, our aversions and likes and dislikes. Then, (2)
there is that area of our being that is wise, because it has learned the
Laws that operate everywhere, and it chooses to live and work in harmony
with those Laws.

These make for two divisions of the MIND. Theosophy in employing the
doctrine of the "Seven Principles," states that on one side is BUDDHI
(Wisdom), and on the other side of the Mind is the Kamic principle of
EMOTION, passions and desires. This is usually called the "Personality" --
it is the "mask" we wear for this incarnation.

When our Mind allies itself with Wisdom (or Knowledge that is common to
all) it is called the Higher Mind or Buddhi-Manas. This Higher Mind is part
of the Spiritual Individual and does not alter from incarnation to
incarnation. 

When the Mind allies itself with our EMOTIONAL, passional and desire nature
(Kama) it is called the Lower Mind or Kama-Manas. This changes each
incarnation. As a "principle" it does not reincarnate.

A psychological study of the mind shows that it is further subdivided into
several working areas. They can be named correct cognition, misconception,
fancy, sleep (or unconsciousness), and memory. 

The real perceptive faculty is to be seen directed by the INNER PERCEIVER
through the use of the will. It employs concentration, selection and
attention. To achieve these and use them, a firm position [ "I am I - the
Immortal Individual"] has to be assumed. 

Patanjali, an ancient psychologist observed: Dispassion (overcoming the
distractions of the EMOTIONS of the desire-principle - Lower Manas) is to be
used. Dispassion can lead to a perception of the "Soul" as all-present. It
leads to our use of Buddhi-Manas (Wisdom) when we need to.

Meditation is the faculty of concentration and attention used to investigate
and discover the meaning and relationship of a selected subject to Nature,
and to ourselves. It may be broadly divided into argument and contrast of
data, deliberation, ecstasy or 'beatitude,' and EGOISM (or a knowledge of
all the powers and range of the Soul's energies). In this case the MOTIONS
of the Mind are subdued and controlled. We, the REAL INDIVIDUAL -- as a
SPIRITUAL AND ETERNAL SELF -- do the controlling using the superior power of
will.

The Soul is another word used for the Mind. Man IS a MIND-SOUL. 

The perceptive faculty is the power of the Higher Mind ( and of the
employment of the will). this becomes usable when it is detached from the
distractions of the sense impressions, the EMOTIONAL nature, and any aspects
of memory or fancy that might divert it from its chosen goal: to know and
understand a TRUTH. This has also been called the "Higher-Mind."
[Buddhi-Manas]

The Lower Mind [Personal consciousness] is that aspect which is enveloped in
desires, distractions, amusement, fancy, and has a general lack of continued
purpose. It is commonly called the "Lower-Mind" or "Lower Manas." 

In the case of the average man and woman, this is the predominant
intelligence that we speak of as "my Self." Its chief instrument to contact
the body, is the brain. The brain records the sense impressions, and
monitors the innumerable operations that relate to actions and the support
and the health of the physical body. It also, when impelled by either
wisdom, or, desire and EMOTION, the organ that energizes the physical body
for the expression of volition through the medium of feelings, thoughts and
actions.

In this manner, Theosophical psychology divides man's nature into two
cooperative yet, at times, seemingly antagonistic portions. It also teaches
in its doctrines that man's nature can be divided into seven chief
"principles" or divisions that may work independently of each other, and yet
are all required to effect a complete living at any one time.

There are three "higher principles" : 

1. Atma - a "ray" of the UNIVERSAL ONE SPIRIT focused in each of us - the
source of our CONSCIOUSNESS. 

2. Wisdom acquired over billions of years of experience - called "Buddhi" -
a bridge between SPIRIT and the embodied personality - the mask we wear in
each "life." [ Note: these two are said to be the "divine duad," or
Spirit-&-Divine-Matter," each different from the other in function, yet,
eternally conjoined. And, 

3. Mind - or Manas -- a "principle" which is linked closely to Buddhi and
which is the active experiencer, the thinker, feeler, willer, inquirer,
imaginer and rememberer. 

A link between these three (sometimes called the "Triple-Monad"), and the
"personality" [or the four-fold "mask"] is formed by a "ray" of Manas thrown
as a "bridge" on to the receptive surface of the physical brain, which acts
in turn as a "bridge" for the highest aspect of the "personality" of each
life. This 'highest aspect' of the personality is called the Kamic
principle - its characteristics are chiefly desire, passion and wants and
needs - all directed to the selfish and sole benefit of the life, work,
responsibilities and pleasures of the present "personality." 

The second division of man's "principles" is called the "Personality," (or
the "mask" of the Spiritual Individuality). It is constituted of:

1. Kama - desire & passions, and EMOTIONS,

2. Of the vitality or Life-principle called sometimes personal
electricity or "animal" magnetism (Prana); 

3. The model body or electro-magnetic framework on which all the cells,
molecules and atoms of the 

4. Physical body, (the 4th principle).

Mind (Manas) being the link between the two natures of man, is said to be
3-fold [details may be read in KEY TO THEOSOPHY, pp. 173-176]. It is also
called "Soul." 

In Theosophical psychology, the "soul" is triune. 

1. There is the "Spiritual Soul" when Manas is linked to Buddhi (wisdom
and discrimination) - as during meditation on high ethical themes and when
one actively seeks to do good to others. Then, 

2. there is the "Human Soul" - or Manas (the mind) per se - as when one
does work with mathematics, or engineering, or studies to increase one's
knowledge. 

3. Finally, there is the "Animal Soul" - which is the Mind allied to
Kama (passions, EMOTIONS and desires). In this lower relationship it
allows itself to be used to assist the desires (Kama) to frame methods of
attaining selfish goals and ambitions. It is, when in that condition
totally immoral or rather, a-moral.

To give a quick over-view: Every "form of matter" from the 'life-atom' on
up to the greatest UNIVERSE we can conceive of (in time and space) runs
under the LAW OF KARMA - the WHOLE as well as all the parts. Karma has also
been called the "LAWS OF NATURE," and the Law of "cause and effect. It
operates on the ethical plane of the creative faculties of the human mind
and marks and responds to 'motive.' Its basis is what is called, in short:
BROTHERHOOD.

THE ONE SPIRIT pervades all SPACE without any exceptions. [ There is no
remote hell or limbo into which a refuse of dust, or "rejected" souls, etc.,
that can be swept away and 'forgotten' or 'isolated.' Such an isolation
would be illogical and impossible in an eternal and limitless Universe. ]

THE ONE SPIRIT in its periodical "manifestations" under KARMA which is a
part of it, sends out, or rather, emanates an aspect of Itself - Manifested
SPIRIT. Simultaneously there is a 'condensation' of the 'opposite
contrasting 'pole' of Primordial Matter, these are each in themselves the
ultimate divisions of "matter" or "substance." They have been named MONADS,
or what we could term the universally divided, yet, all-present units of
ATMA-BUDDHI.

These are as permanent, immortal and eternal as is the manifested Universe.
Our SELF, Ego, and all the "matter" of which our six "vehicles" (or
principles) are formed, consists of such MONADS, each at its own level and
stage of intelligent development. 


Each cooperates under the universal and impersonal LAW of Karma, with all
the others. There is a vast field of living, responsive, magneto-electric
substance that serves to effect the intelligent and living connection which
is at all times present between every MONAD and all the rest. It has been
called "Jiva." In any "personality" it is named "Prana," (breath), or that
aspect of Jiva which is needed for that personality to live as a ray of its
consciousness in a sheath of gross matter.

What is being developed or evolved by an Ego in earth-life? Is it not the
"perception of Self" - of various degrees of consciousness which show up as
innate qualities and properties in each MONAD? 

If this is taken as a probable, then the whole UNIVERSE may be considered as
a vast SCHOOL in which every level and kind of experience is to be found.
And, the rate of progress and individual advancement is chosen by those
immortal MONADS from time to time as well as all the time. 

At first they can be seen to emerge from the general and apparent "chaos" of
the "Monadic Essence." Then there is a gradual individualization and a
passing through the various stages of progressive intelligent development in
all the divisions of Nature - akasic, astral, elemental, metals, vegetable,
animal until the human-stage is reached. 

In other words each MONAD as it advances in experience becomes responsible
for an increasing numbers of other MONADS (of lesser experience), who ally
themselves to it through attraction or repulsion and are its "attendants"
(skandhas or 'aggregates') for a longer or shorter period of time. If we
extend in thought this process, we can understand why it is said that we
are, in truth, Universal beings (as eternal and indestructible MONADS)
because we embrace the farthermost boundaries of infinitude - the UNIVERSE.
We are a 'center,' -- a center of THOUGHT -- but, the effects of our
thinking move and stir all other beings -- we can say that our
'circumference' is unlimited.

In the man-form each individual Monad undergoes the experience of the
"LIGHTING UP OF MANAS." By this process it becomes a "self-conscious" unit.
It acquires the power to see and in a self-reflective way, it can consider
itself. This is a "gift" bestowed on it by Higher and More advanced Humans
who have already passed through our stage and have "graduated" from it, so
to say. They are known in various ways as the "Fathers," the Prophets, the
Buddhas, the Seers, the Wise, the Dhyanis, the Mahatmas, the Masters of
Wisdom, Adepts, etc.

Simultaneously, a well-advanced MONAD - one which has reached full
SELF-CONSCIOUSNESS earlier, takes over the chore of assisting and guiding
(by suggestion and not by any compulsion) the self-devised development of
the "newly" aware and self-conscious Monad. It takes up residence along
with the MONAD that is developing through its own decisions - assisting when
referred to (as the Intuition or the Voice of Conscience). 

The "LIGHTING UP OF MANAS" is an event that occurs in the Manvantaric cycle
for a certain class of MONADS as they "graduate" from the "animal
consciousness class" into the "human-consciousness class." Such a change is
said to have occurred a little over 18 million years ago. We as humans, are
all in this particular class, living, interacting and working together. It
is a change in the type of consciousness and level of responsibility. One
might say we are now in the process of mastering our EMOTIONS and developing
the power of THINKING about universal and eternal matters -- and as how we
can put them to work in our daily lives. The Monad, which is our true
SELVES, is aware of the presence of the vast brotherhood of self-conscious
Egos who are its personal family, parents, elders, siblings, children,
compatriots, etc. And it is only natural that we meet those again from life
to life in analogous relationships.

REINCARNATION is the process (under karma) whereby the learning process of
this immortal MONADIC pupil is perpetuated and held to its individual line.
Each personal 'life' is like a 'day' at School.

The ultimate "Goad" we can think of, for ourselves as an EGO-MONAD, is to
become a "universally-conscious MONAD." That is the condition of an Adept,
a Rishi, or, a Mahatma [great-soul]. The one thing we have as a barrier is
the PERSONAL vitality and ego-centered Kamic EMOTIONS, or the
desire-principle which gives us our present waking-life sense of personality
when we incarnate into a physical body. 

KAMA -- EMOTIONS

The desire-principle, active in us, is selfish and focused on its likes and
dislikes. A concept that the 'lower-mind' in humanity does not like, is the
fact and idea that it is subordinate (as intelligence) to the inner Monitor
(or Tutor) the HIGHER SELF [Atma-Buddhi]. This ADVANCED MONADIC EGO is an
aspect of the ONE UNIVERSAL SELF that pervades the Universe. It even
penetrates our sense of selfishness and desire for secrecy and isolation.
We cannot "escape" from it. But we can learn to understand and appreciate
it, and thereby form a path that can lead us to a condition similar to its
present wise state. We, to, can become WISE. It is for the purpose of ever
holding out this potential "goal" that the Higher Self sacrifices its
freedom and liberty - so that we may also eventually achieve a parity with
it. This is the "great sacrifice" and it is done out of compassion and a
recognition of the universal brotherhood of all in Nature. [ see S D I 207
-210 ]


EMOTIONS (KAMA) and LOWER MANAS

The personal, EMOTIONAL and selfish self is the "Lower Manas." And one of
its characteristics is the well-known desire to see if it can break the Laws
of the Universe and the World without having to pay the price of suffering.
And in such attempts we can recognize the developing of a false sense of
independence. It is termed false, because it is short-sighted and does not
fully address the question: "After you have achieved your desire and goal,
what will you do next?" In every case, if we examine ourselves, we will see
that at the back of our consciousness as a "personal being" is a firm and
ineradicable knowledge that the Laws of Nature --KARMA-are immutable - the
same for everyone and no one can escape the scope of their action. We
always get what we desire. So let us desire HIGH and TRUE. Why suffer
unnecessarily?

This is a brief exposition as there are many arguments pro and con that can
be used to review the accuracy of such a concept

That UNITY OF THE ONE SPIRIT forms a great symphonic harmony during those
periods when there is manifestation - the "music of the spheres." The
influence of the small and the great intermingle and each is important to
all the others. 

If we are inter-responsible then the Law Of Karma resolves itself into the
reasonable treatment of others, the giving to others that which we expect to
receive from them - the "Golden Rule."

The duality of Manas which is explained by HPB in the KEY TO THEOSOPHY, p.
173-76, SD II 167. There are many references to this in Theosophical
literature, as for instance in SD II 79-80 87 94 186 233 241 246 294 342
109-110 273-5 ; and SD I 267 210 416-7 574 105 130 (the 2 ONES) 295fn, also
HPB articles in THEOSOPHIST Vol. 5, pp. 246 (to be found in the ULT Edn. Of
HPB Articles III p. 265 and Blavatsky Collected Works Vol 6, pp 248-9 ISIS
UNVEILED AND THE VISHISTADWAITA.)

In this last mentioned article HPB states on the authority of the SECRET
DOCTRINE that no MONAD ever totally looses its identity during the great
time intervals of Pralaya, between any two periods of manifestation. This
great and universal "sleep" ends and all MONADS emerge back on to the stage
of manifestation and individual progress at the stage and in conditions
similar to those when the went "to sleep." 

We are in truth, the "eternal pilgrims," and existence is the eternal
"Path."


Best wishes,

Dallas


=========================

Message-----
From: zakk 
Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2005 8:10 PM
To: 
Subject: Re: Manas

>Svabhava. HPB personifies this as Lord Svabhavat in the SD. Svabhava is the
polar opposite to sunyata which is usually translated as emptiness. The
nondual Monad, alias our original mind or naked mind, is svabhava while its
"rays" are sunyata. And yes, this is a model.<

----If sunyata is translated as emptiness, then perhaps
absence is compatable. Either way, presence would seem to
define the polar opposite. Just a thought.----


Jerry: <<"I do not think" is like saying "I do not dream." >>

---It is not quite the same, but similar in the awareness state 
of which the occurence is experienced.---

The brain thinks during the waking state whether we attend to it or not
just like the heart pumps and the lungs breathe. When you say "I do not
think" you mean "I can ignore my thoughts for long periods and attend to
other things" which is quite a feat in itself.

-----I refer to total blankness, no mind activity as it
pertains to thought. Ignoring thoughts is another
matter and not what I was referring to. Many are
those who know not, and believe not, about a mind 
being blank. To each their own experience. It is not 
a matter in which I would enter a debate on. Only
experience will provide self realization. -----

<<I did not joke when I stated I prefer 
no thought and that it is experienced.>>

The fact that no-thought is experienced does not mean that the brain stops
thinking. 

----- An individual who has spent most of this
life's existence in the state of no-thought might 
have experiences of which result in some insight 
and understanding.----

<< I will also state that 
one can choose not to dream. >>

Yes. Adepts do not have to dream.

----One need not be an adept. ---


<<Any individual who has
experienced what is referred to as the awake state, can
verify the same.----

>The "awake state?" Is this the same thing as the normal waking state? 
There is what is called the hypnogogic state which is on the threshold
between dreaming and waking. Perhaps that is what you mean?<

----No. HPB mentioned the awake state. The "normal"
waking state of an individual is continuous without pause
or sleep.---- 

I spend a lot
of time there, but the body still needs deep sleep once in awhile to
maintain health.

----One only needs to rest the body. Inner energy 
sustains it. One sit in a chair and rest the body; as
long as the body has some time of inactivity then
maitaining health is not an issue.----