Theos-Talk Archives (February 2005 Message tt00712)

you may find good information about dzogchen here
http://www.berzinarchives.com/dzogchen/index.html

it is curious to observe that the practice it is found primarily in 
the Nyingma and Bon traditions.
And Tsongkhapa, the great bodhisattva, reformer of buddhism and 
mentioned with respect by Mahatma K.H when making his refforms, 
attests that the school with more problems related to practices, and 
misunderstandings, and deturpations is the Nyingma school.
Curiouslly, while the hat (pa) of the gelugpa is yellow the nyingma's 
one is red (dugpa)


--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, samblo@c... wrote:
> Erica,
> Thanks for your comments and personal reflections of your direct 
> observations of the Tibetans. 
> Of course as the Temporal and Spiritual Leader of Tibet the 
Dalai Lama 
> has obligation to assist all Tibetans, I quite agree and this is 
good. But I 
> made specific points about his assistance of excising the 
Libraries, texts, 
> woodcuts of the various Orders other than the Gelugpa Order and 
arranged funding so 
> that they may be reproduced and disseminated widely including the 
Bon 
> literary religoius texts. This is a little different than a general 
helping of all 
> Tibetans as tibetan people.
> 
> >>Well it is not so difficult to understand that whatever is 
promoting left 
> hand teachings is going to be easier accepted by the society and 
consequently 
> will gather thousand of followers.<<
> 
> I really don't understand the logic here, I view people in 
general as being 
> basically good and in my view most if not 95% or higher would have 
no 
> inclination to involve in left-handed practices that they perceive 
might harm others. 
> Why do you have this view?
> 
> >>Or do you think that a Lama just because has the status of a Lama 
is 
> somebody that may have any spiritual status?<<
> 
> No, I have the view that if they have rightly performed the 
dzogchen to 
> it's highest end product and result they would have no inclination 
to practice 
> left-hand actions.
> 
> Yes, I too have seen monks wearing gold colored watches, but in 
the modren 
> world if you miss the plane or train or appointment it usually 
inconveniences 
> others who rely upon their punctuality for many reasons. Expedient 
means are 
> not the end but only what is necessary to accomplish goals. 
Vedanta, Catholic 
> monks also wear watches and have Pc's at their center, have a book 
> store,online home page and secure purchase arrangement. I hope you 
don't want to return 
> to the 7th century based on misplaced aesthetics, I don't.
> 
> It depends on what is inspected in the survey to determine how 
much has 
> changed in 1000 years. We stopped burning people at the stake, and 
alot of other 
> things, at least here in the west. Change is terribly slow for all 
of us in 
> terms of how fast we would seem to like it to happen, but half of 
the problem 
> of the world is half of the world is in rebellion against change 
which they 
> perceive is happening too fast for their wishes and how it woulf 
affect their 
> most deeply cherished faults. I agree change proceeds slowly and I 
have 
> entertained the theory that there is a senior moderating infleunce 
that restricted the 
> pace as a collective function of governance of mankind quite 
beyiond our 
> individual cognizance. I hold a faith that this unseen projector of 
the movement 
> of mankind has a better pulse on it than we as individuals have.
> 
> John
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]