Theos-Talk Archives (February 2005 Message tt00533)

--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Erica Letzerich wrote:

> Krishnamurti teachings helped in a great level the T.S. to
> be free of the astralism Leadbeater was promoting.

Astral level is anyway a bit higher than a physical. Most people (at 
least here in Russia, but I guess it is so everywhere) who condemn 
everything astral are quite unable to raise above physical plane 
themselves, even to astral, not saying about mental and buddhic. So 
they despise the pudding which they have never tasted.
If under "astralism" you mean an emotional and devotional attitude, 
it's a merit of Besant, at least it seems so from some of her 
lectures. And she was the Boss, not Leadbeater or Hodson who undertook 
astral investigations.

> To use the crisis Krishnamurti had when he lost his brother
> as a parameter to measure his level of knowledge is but cruel.

Nevertheless, to test the knowledge by practice is the only objective 
method. Many people preach about God, immortality and things like that 
but are materialists inside, for they afraid of death and strive to 
material posessions. Many christians "believe" in what Bible teaches, 
but do quite the reverse.

> Life After Death - Krishnamurti

Is it an older work? In his earlier works and talks he definitely 
wrote that he really came as a world teacher and wanted to lead people 
to the feet of Lord Buddha. See Hymn to Lord Buddha published in 
"Theosophist" somewhere circa 1996. This hymn was written in 1927, 
when Leabeater was out in Australia for more than 10 years.

Geoffrey Hodson wrote:
"Krishnamurti himself thereafter changed the Objects of the Order of 
the Star in the East from, in effect, "To prepare for the coming of 
the Lord" to "To serve the World Teacher now that He is in our midst." 
I, myself, more than once heard Krishnamurti affirm that the great 
Teacher was now here and that the "Coming" had actually occurred."

> It seems strange a materialist to admit such powers as the
> ones mentioned above and to speak about immortality.

There is a school of thought which has many adherents here which 
teaches that all the subtle bodies are just "auras" or "fields" around 
physical body which is their base. They teach that the physical 
existence is only of importance, and that after death these fields 
inevitably dissipate. Some also teach that they know the method how to 
postpone that keeping them in order and reach immortality by 
obscession of a new body. Though it is a school of magic, it is 
materialistic nevertheless. In the Soviet Union materialism was the 
official doctrine, but the telepathy was sometimes admitted as "brain 
radio connection".

> "Neither our philosophy nor ourselves believe in a God"
> Mahatma M.

It's not M, it's K.H., and later he writes:
"Parabrahm is not a God, but absolute immutable law", while 
Krishnamurti identifies them, denying both. Noteworthy that one can 
find in the works by Krishnamurti almost every statement for or 
against anything. Well, some call it "free-thinking". :)

> His teachings are basic of buddhic nature

I also believed so 10 years ago and even wrote about it in theos-l.
But later when I knew more about his life and read more of his works I 
changed my mind.
Maybe it was so called "atlantean" way when one jumps from astral 
right to buddhi, passing manas by, but that system was practiced under 
dogmatic religious instruction, where free-thinking was almost 
impossible. After that a disciple reached direct knowledge and could 
instruct others and lead them. But this implies conception of guru.

> But truth independent of personal opinions is that Krishnamurti was 
a great inquirer.

It is so, but have he found anything?
He had the full right to dissociate himself from the theosophy and 
became an independent philosopher, but I never knew (though I may be 
not informed) that he could advocate his position in a philosophical 
dispute with a representative of any other school of thought. All 
conversations which I have read or seen by video were rather the talks 
with admirers. Nor didn't I seen any his living follower who could do 
so, neither I haven't seen those who succeeded to perform the 
transformation which he preached. To any agument the followers reply: 
oh, you are reasoning, it's all the mind games, you should change. 
Sounds much alike to "come around to Hank's way of thinking", and so 
we return to some dogmatic system from which we were trying to escape. 
Most of his lectures are just series of statements. Yet that strategy 
enabled Krishnamurti to became respectable person unlike HPB & CWL and 
join the philosophical establishment. No one will say that 
Krishnamurti or Nietzsche or any other "philosopher" of that kind were 
charlatains!