Theos-Talk Archives (February 2005 Message tt00455)

Art Gregory and his "Spirit Guides" Speculation

Art Gregory (see his email BELOW) keeps 
insisting that HPB's Masters were
nothing but "spirit guides". Yet 
when was the last time you saw a 
"spirit guide" outdoors on a horse? 
Or a "spirit guide" outdoors in broad 
daylight or being seen by a group of 
people not at a seance? I could 
multiple the examples.

Compare Art's "interpretation" with 
the actual testimonial evidence. 
Three examples will suffice for this forum.

Col. Olcott wrote:

Example 1:

"This same Brother once visited me in the 
flesh at Bombay, coming in full
day light, and on horseback. He had 
me called by a servant into the front
room of H.P.B.'s bungalow (she being 
at the time in the other bungalow
talking with those who were there). 
He [Morya] came to scold me roundly for
something I had done in T.S. matters, 
and as H.P.B. was also to blame, he
telegraphed to her to come, that is to 
say, he turned his face and extended
his finger in the direction of the place 
she was in. She came over at once
with a rush, and seeing him dropped to 
her knees and paid him reverence. My
voice and his had been heard by those 
in the other bungalow, but only H.P.B.
and I, and the servant saw him." (Extract 
from a letter written by Colonel
Olcott to A.O. Hume on Sept. 30, 1881. 
Quoted in Hints On Esoteric
Theosophy, No. 1, 1882, p. 80.)

Example 2:

"Describing a visit to the Golden Temple 
in Amritsar on 23 October 1880,
[Olcott]. . . writes: '...at a shrine 
where the swords, sharp steel discs,
coats of mail, and other warlike weapons 
of the Sikh warrior priests are
exposed to view in charge of the akalis, 
I was greeted, to my surprise and
joy, with a loving smile by one of the 
Masters, who for the moment was
figuring among the guardians, and who 
gave each of us a fresh rose, with a
blessing in his eyes....' [Old Diary 
Leaves, volume 2, pp. 254-255, 1974
printing.]"


Example 3 from the testimony of 
William T. Brown:

"...Lahore has a special interest, because 
there we saw, in his own physical
body, Mahatma Koot Hoomi himself. On the 
afternoon of the 19th November
[1883], I saw the Master in broad daylight, 
and recognized him. . . ."


Art, in these three cases, do you really believe that these
Masters are nothing but "spirit guides"?

K. Paul Johnson's "theories" appear more substantial than your
"interpretation"!!!

You keep insisting that you want us to "put childish things away and 
truly embrace Satya, the Truth."

You might heed your own words and reconsider whether your own 
interpretation of "spirit guides" is nothing but a "childish" 
explanation of your own making.

Art, please look at the DETAILS of the testimonies about the Masters 
instead of glossing over them in your attempt to consign these so-
called "shadowy beings to the shadows from which they emerged."

Hopefully other readers of these emails will first look at the facts 
and pay less attention to pre-conceived theories such as your spirit 
guide
one.

OBTW, Olcott's testimony that you related below did not concern
Master KH as you contend. His testimony related to Master M. Again
details are important.

Daniel Caldwell



> 2. From Art Gregory lgregory@discover.net
> Subject: Will the real Mahatma please stand up?
>
> It is not my purpose to attack the good work of Col. Olcott. His
> contributions have been made and are historically verifiable 
particularly
> to the Buddhist community. As a man he had shortcomings as all of 
us must
> and history has already judged his efforts as the first President 
of the
> Society. Let his memory remain for the positive contributions he 
made.
>
> As for the psychic episodes reported one need but cite the 
quotation below
> in which he wrote of the some twenty times the Master KH was seen 
in the
> Astral body. His further remark that he saw the Master KH more 
than three
> or four times "but not under circumstances where it would be 
evidence for
> others," is telling enough for me. Recall that both Olcott and 
Madame
> Blavatsky were avid Spiritualists and very familiar with seances 
and such
> phenomena as "spiritual guides." Such guides are commonplace in
> spiritualist literature and not that unusual.
>
>
> >MR. MYERS: Have you seen him three or four times in the flesh?
> >
> >COLONEL OLCOTT: Yes, more than that, but not under circumstances 
where it
> >would be evidence for others.
> >
> >MR. MYERS: And about how many times [have you seen him] in the 
astral
body?
> >
> >COLONEL OLCOTT: Oh, at least 15 or 20 times.
>
>
> The mistake here is to confuse the "spirit guides" common in 
Spiritualism
> with true in the flesh masters and to give the "spirit guides" a 
greater
> place than the verifiable, historical Masters, thus devaluating 
the very
> legitimate contributions of historical real Masters. As an example 
I will
> cite the practise of the daily life of the Ashram of Mahatma 
Gandhi:
>
>
> >Many highly educated persons joined his ashram to learn yoga 
under him.
They
> >thought that Gandhiji would teach them yoga in some mysterious 
manner, in
a
> >private room. They thought that he would teach them pranayama,
meditation,
> >awakening of the kundalini, etc. They were asked to clean the 
latrines
> >first.
> >
> >Gandhiji used to mend his own shoes. He himself used to grind the 
flour.
He
> >would take upon himself the work of others when they were unable 
to do
their
> >allotted portion of work. When an educated person, a new 
ashramite, felt
shy
> >to do grinding work, Gandhiji himself would do the work in front 
of him.
And
> >then the man would willingly do the work the next day.
> >
> >Try to do daily as many virtuous actions as possible. When you go 
to
sleep
> >have a review of your day's actions. Mark them in your spiritual 
diary.
> >Performance of virtuous actions is the beginning of spiritual 
life.
>
> I can cite numerous examples of historically verifiable instances 
of
> Masters in the flesh educating humanity and teaching the soul that 
makes
> the interaction of KH and Col. Olcott cited by others as mere 
romantic
> fantasies compared to true life episodes of instruction and 
learning.
> Examples of this can be found in the late life of Leo Tolstoy 
wherein he
> adopted the style of life of the serfs and personally educated 
them to
read
> and write; The example of Vinobe Bhave who single handedly built a
movement
> intyhe 1950's of the greatest voluntary contribution of land to the
> poorest, landless people of India; The above example and the 
principles of
> Mahatma Gandhi in his Satya Agraha movement; The countles and 
little known
> Jaina saints who have lived lives dedicated to total Ahimsa; there 
are of
> course many others.
>
> The deeper question to me is as follows: How much longer will 
theosophists
> cling to the phantoms of the distant past on entering the new 
millenium?
> Isn't it time to put childish things away and truly embrace Satya, 
the
> Truth, that the theosophical movement may once again assume some 
beacon of
> leadership light in the next century?
>
> Or will we continue to tell tired old tales to each other, waisting
> valuable energy and time. I'm for the option of consigning these 
spectral
> missives and shadowy beings to the shadows from which they 
emerged. Let
> these past shadowy beings be an interesting historical note in the
> development of a world movement for truth and let us forge ahead 
daring to
> experiment and daring to question being in the forefront of a new 
world
> brotherhood.

Quoted from:
http://theos-talk.com/archives/199910/tt00014.html

Daniel
http://hpb.cc