Theos-Talk Archives (October 1999 Message tt00014)

Art Gregory and his "Spirit Guides" Speculation

Art Gregory (see his email BELOW) keeps insisting that HPB's Masters were
nothing but "spirit guides".  Yet when was the last
time you saw a "spirit guide" outdoors on a horse?  Or a "spirit
guide" outdoors in broad daylight or being seen by a group of people not at
a
seance?  I could multiple the examples.

Compare Art's "interpretation" with the actual testimonial evidence.  See
http://sites.netscape.net/dhcblainfo/paranormal.htm#Appendix
and http://www.blavatsky.net/gen/refute/caldwell/johnson1.htm

Three examples will suffice for this forum.

Col. Olcott wrote:

Example 1:

"This same Brother once visited me in the flesh at Bombay, coming in full
day light, and on horseback. He had me called by a servant into the front
room of H.P.B.'s bungalow (she being at the time in the other bungalow
talking with those who were there). He [Morya] came to scold me roundly for
something I had done in T.S. matters, and as H.P.B. was also to blame, he
telegraphed to her to come, that is to say, he turned his face and extended
his finger in the direction of the place she was in. She came over at once
with a rush, and seeing him dropped to her knees and paid him reverence. My
voice and his had been heard by those in the other bungalow, but only H.P.B.
and I, and the servant saw him." (Extract from a letter written by Colonel
Olcott to A.O. Hume on Sept. 30, 1881. Quoted in Hints On Esoteric
Theosophy, No. 1, 1882, p. 80.)

Example 2:

"Describing a visit to the Golden Temple in Amritsar on 23 October 1880,
[Olcott]. . . writes: '...at a shrine where the swords, sharp steel discs,
coats of mail, and other warlike weapons of the Sikh warrior priests are
exposed to view in charge of the akalis, I was greeted, to my surprise and
joy, with a loving smile by one of the Masters, who for the moment was
figuring among the guardians, and who gave each of us a fresh rose, with a
blessing in his eyes....' [Old Diary Leaves, volume 2, pp. 254-255, 1974
printing.]"


Example 3 from the testimony of William T. Brown:

"...Lahore has a special interest, because there we saw, in his own physical
body, Mahatma Koot Hoomi himself. On the afternoon of the 19th November
[1883], I saw the Master in broad daylight, and recognized him. . . ."


Art, in these three cases, do you really believe that these
Masters are nothing but "spirit guides"?

K. Paul Johnson's "theories" appear more substantial than your
"interpretation"!!!

You keep insisting that you want us to "put childish things away and truly
embrace Satya, the Truth."

You might heed your own words and reconsider whether your own interpretation
of "spirit guides" is nothing but a "childish" explanation of your own
making.

Art, please look at the DETAILS of the testimonies about the Masters instead
of glossing over them in your attempt to consign these so-called
"shadowy beings to the shadows from which they emerged."

Hopefully other readers of these emails will first look at the facts and
pay less attention to pre-conceived theories such as your spirit guide
one.

OBTW, Olcott's testimony that you related below did not concern
Master KH as you contend.  His testimony related to Master M.  Again
details are important.

Daniel Caldwell



> 2. From Art Gregory  lgregory@discover.net
> Subject: Will the real Mahatma please stand up?
>
> It is not my purpose to attack the good work of Col. Olcott. His
> contributions have been made and are historically verifiable particularly
> to the Buddhist community. As a man he had shortcomings as all of us must
> and history has already judged his efforts as the first President of the
> Society. Let his memory remain for the positive contributions he made.
>
> As for the psychic episodes reported one need but cite the quotation below
> in which he wrote of the some twenty times the Master KH was seen in the
> Astral body. His further remark that he saw the Master KH more than three
> or four times "but not under circumstances where it would be evidence for
> others," is telling enough for me. Recall that both Olcott and Madame
> Blavatsky were avid Spiritualists and very familiar with seances and such
> phenomena as "spiritual guides." Such guides are commonplace in
> spiritualist literature and not that unusual.
>
>
> >MR. MYERS: Have you seen him three or four times in the flesh?
> >
> >COLONEL OLCOTT: Yes, more than that, but not under circumstances where it
> >would be evidence for others.
> >
> >MR. MYERS: And about how many times [have you seen him] in the astral
body?
> >
> >COLONEL OLCOTT: Oh, at least 15 or 20 times.
>
>
>  The mistake here is to confuse the "spirit guides" common in Spiritualism
> with true in the flesh masters and to give the "spirit guides" a greater
> place than the verifiable, historical Masters, thus devaluating the very
> legitimate contributions of historical real Masters. As an example I will
> cite the practise of the daily life of the Ashram of Mahatma Gandhi:
>
>
> >Many highly educated persons joined his ashram to learn yoga under him.
They
> >thought that Gandhiji would teach them yoga in some mysterious manner, in
a
> >private room. They thought that he would teach them pranayama,
meditation,
> >awakening of the kundalini, etc. They were asked to clean the latrines
> >first.
> >
> >Gandhiji used to mend his own shoes. He himself used to grind the flour.
He
> >would take upon himself the work of others when they were unable to do
their
> >allotted portion of work. When an educated person, a new ashramite, felt
shy
> >to do grinding work, Gandhiji himself would do the work in front of him.
And
> >then the man would willingly do the work the next day.
> >
> >Try to do daily as many virtuous actions as possible. When you go to
sleep
> >have a review of your day's actions. Mark them in your spiritual diary.
> >Performance of virtuous actions is the beginning of spiritual life.
>
> I can cite numerous examples of historically verifiable instances of
> Masters in the flesh educating humanity and teaching the soul that makes
> the interaction of KH and Col. Olcott cited by others as mere romantic
> fantasies compared to true life episodes of instruction and learning.
> Examples of this can be found in the late life of Leo Tolstoy wherein he
> adopted the style of life of the serfs and personally educated them to
read
> and write; The example of Vinobe Bhave who single handedly built a
movement
> intyhe 1950's of the greatest voluntary contribution of land to the
> poorest, landless people of India; The above example and the principles of
> Mahatma Gandhi in his Satya Agraha movement; The countles and little known
> Jaina saints who have lived lives dedicated to total Ahimsa; there are of
> course many others.
>
> The deeper question to me is as follows: How much longer will theosophists
> cling to the phantoms of the distant past on entering the new millenium?
> Isn't it time to put childish things away and truly embrace Satya, the
> Truth, that the theosophical movement may once again assume some beacon of
> leadership light in the next century?
>
> Or will we continue to tell tired old tales to each other, waisting
> valuable energy and time. I'm for the option of consigning these spectral
> missives and shadowy beings to the shadows from which they emerged. Let
> these past shadowy beings be an interesting historical note in the
> development of a world movement for truth and let us forge ahead daring to
> experiment and daring to question being in the forefront of a new world
> brotherhood.



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