Theos-Talk Archives (February 2005 Message tt00293)

Alaya, your example on Olcott is quite correct.
There is somewhere the story of the ES in London 
on HPB's time. They had a quarrel over a negative 
newspaper article about Theosphy and could not 
decide whether they should write a readers letter 
or not. That moment HPB upstairs mad an outcry. 
They run to the second floor ans asked HPB was was 
going on and she replied that Master was just 
here, saying that he listened to the discussion 
and that the ES will be closed when such a vice 
will be repeated.
I am writing out of memory and forget where it can 
be found. I think there story was transmitted by 
Countess Wachtmeister.

I have observed further that even in that groups 
which do not support Leadbeater (the Hartmann or 
Point Loma lineage) you will find the dogmatism of 
Leadbeater, although they SAY that Leadbeater is 
wrong. But it is only lip service, they do not 
understand why he was wrong and what was wrong. 
They oppose him because they have heard that he 
was wrong.
When I ask Hartmann or Point Loma members: What 
exactly was wrong with Leadbeater? they are afraid 
I am a Leadbeaterist or a black magician, because 
noone before asked such stupid questions? Everyone 
knows that Leadbeater was bad? Sure. But why? He 
was bad because he was bad - and now go out!

So even those who seem to to oppose Leadbeater may 
be contaminated with Leadbeaterism and prefer the 
emotionalism of the astral world for the spiritual 
word.

Your English is good enough to me. In which 
country do you live?
Frank

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Alaya" <lalaya7@yahoo.com.br>
To: <theos-talk@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, February 11, 2005 3:54 PM
Subject: Theos-World Re: hate Leadbeater? mind 
realms!


Your last paragraph was just perfect
I was very sad to hear (read) you... Very sad, 
indeed, what happened
there, in Germany
While i was reading your post
i remembered a letter from one mahatma where the 
master criticizes
Olcott for staying silent when listening to 
someone criticizing HPB.
He was criticized by the master for not defending 
her (if he trully
believed on HPB) for the one who stays in silence, 
agrees with what
is being said. The master says that a true 
theosophist is that who is
not ashamed to proclame what he believes and who 
in face of a 'fellow-
brother' being 'destroyed' by criticism, like HPB, 
doesn't remain
silence.
The master was criticizing olcoot for not having 
answer to a
criticism on HPB...
so, why should we remain silent?

p.s - sorry for my bad english
got a little bit carried out...

--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Frank 
Reitemeyer"
<ringding777@t...> wrote:
> Alaya, thanks for the astral flowers...:-))
>
> Some years ago I was upset upon the intellectual
> and spiritual degeneration within the dogmatic,
> fanatical, uneducated groups in Germany. All the
> lies and slanders that where ever invented 
> against
> HPB and Theosophy were presented, but no 
> contrast
> allowed (to present the arguments of the pro HPB
> side is named hounding, unbrotherliness,
> fundamentalism, black magic, squabbler).
>
> Frequently I was told from the old theosophists
> (they, who have never studied the doctrines by
> books and/or life, claim they are right because
> they are older!) that it is untheosophical to
> defend Theosophy and that HPB never defended
> Theosophy.
>
> One splinter group in Frankfurt, renegats from 
> the
> Hartmann TS, claimed in their magazine that the
> truth defends itsself and appealed to the 
> readers
> not to provoke dispute by defending HPB!
>
> So I was sitting some days on my desk and
> collected quotations from our standard 
> literature
> that defending Theosophy is not only allowed but 
> a
> sine quo non for a lay chela. The result was 
> that
> there group stopped all connections to me, never
> published my contrast view and presented their
> article on their homepage (where it is since 
> years
> until today). From that behaviour it can 
> concluded
> that even 20 or so clear quotes from HPB, 
> Masters,
> Judge, Purucker, Hartmann did not rise any doubt
> on their maya or to check their arguments, they
> believe in their unproven dogma more fanatical
> than ever!
>
> I am quite sure, in some centuries theosophists
> will burn theosophists for believing that HPB 
> knew
> M. or that HPB believed in reincarnation. And 
> the
> torture theosophists will claim they are the 
> only
> true followers of HPB, because the tortured body
> is but matter and matter must be destroyed!
> Frank
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Alaya" <lalaya7@y...>
> To: <theos-talk@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Friday, February 11, 2005 3:18 PM
> Subject: Theos-World Re: hate Leadbeater? mind
> realms!
>
>
>
>
> CLAP CLAP CLAP to Frank!
> Very puntctual!
> plus: there is a great difference between 
> warning
> people of some
> danger of corrupted teachings and crictisizing
> just for
> being 'stubborn'
> I don't think warning people is something
> ridiculous
>
> --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Frank
> Reitemeyer"
> <ringding777@t...> wrote:
> > Krishtar wrote:
> >
> > Remember that Leadbeater didn't held any
> > important office in the
> > Theosophical Society. The difference of
> > opinion
> > and preaching wrong
> > teaching is not a sin at all. To accuse 
> > people
> > in that is just
> > ridiculous for those who call themselves
> > theosophists.
> >
> >
> > Really? I think preaching wrong teachings 
> > under
> > the false impression as coming from Shambhala 
> > or
> > the Masters of Wisdom is IMHO a big sin.
> > If not so, why did HPB and her teachers oblige
> > their theosophists to defend the true
> > theosophical
> > teachings against pseudo-theosophical
> > corruptions?
> > Obviously, you seem to intermix emotions which
> > spirituality - the typical maya of
> > Leadbeaterists.
> > Frank
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>
>
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