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Re: Theos-World Re: Answer to Leadbeater and bailey are a problem part I

Feb 05, 2005 03:15 AM
by M. Sufilight


Hallo Cass and all,

My views are:

Cass wrote:
"YOU ARE BOTH RIGHT, THE WORLD AT THAT TIME WAS HEADING TOWARDS SPIRITUALISM, AND HPB NEEDED TO UNDERMINE THAT INCORRECT BELIEF SYSTEM, SO SHE USED CRITICISM. AS WE ALL KNOW IT LATER MISFIRED ON HER, ALTHOUGH I AM SURE SHE WAS AWARE THAT THIS WOULD BE THE RESULT. SPIRITUALISM HAD TO BE STOPPED IN ITS TRACKS BECAUSE IT WOULD HAVE LEAD TO PSYCHISM WHICH WOULD HAVE PUT US ALL IN THE POSITION OF BEING UNCONSCIOUS WORKERS FOR THE DARK SIDE."

My answer:
I disagree with your view.
Are you saying that the Spiritualists use of Psychism has been stopped today ?
I say no. It is still reaering its ugly head.
Just have a look at the various sects, new age groups, certain right wing orthodox (millitant) christians and some of the ongoing paraspychological research.
And for instance the fact that the theosophical books which are selling the most is CWL's books like "The Chakras", "Astral Plane", "Man Visible and Invisible" and so on. Books which somehow forgets to teach Atma-Vidya or which at least do an effort in watering down such a teaching, - not to mention the authors merits in LCC.

Cass wrote:
"HPB HAD TO WARN THE FUTURE GENERATION THAT OCCULTISM, INCORRECTLY PRACTICED COULD LEAD TO THE POSSIBILITY OF INSANITY OR SEXUAL DEBASEMENT."

My answer:
I agree.


Cass wrote:
"BECAUSE WE SUBMIT OUR WILL TO BE CONTROLLED BY OTHERS AND OPEN OURSELVES TO THE NATURE OF THE HYPNOTIST. I ASK YOU IS SELF HYPNOSIS A BAD THING?"

My answer:
Perhaps we do not so much submit ourselves. - As I see it, - it is much more the problem that some of us humans are doing immoral activities.
Especially Sorcery, bad magical arts and the like. That was what HPB talked about as being one of the reason on why to promote Theosophy.

Yes Self Hypnosis is a bad thing - when practised as Sorcery.
Whereas Meditation and Contemplation is allright. There is a difference in moral and motives.

Cass wrote:
"HOW CAN YOU UNDERSTAND THE TRUTH WITHOUT EXPLORING IT?"

My answer:
Yes, that is why we help each other to understand what we have overlooked etc. etc.


You know, we Sufis or Firephilosophers are a bunch of designers.
:-)
I think "OCCULTISM VERSUS THE OCCULT ARTS" is a great article by HPB.
I can only recommend it as a meditation-theme when you consider how to promote theosophy:
------- http://www.blavatsky.net/blavatsky/arts/OccultismVersusTheOccultArts.htm -------


from
M. Sufilight qith peace and love...



----- Original Message ----- From: "Cass Silva" <silva_cass@yahoo.com>
To: <theos-talk@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2005 7:26 AM
Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: Answer to Leadbeater and bailey are a problem part I





"M. Sufilight" <global-theosophy@stofanet.dk> wrote:

Hallo all,

My views are:

Konstantin Zaitzev wrote about HPB:
"The time has shown that this strategy of criticize was erroneous,
because it provoked hostility not of the Church only, but of most
other
schools, primarily spiritualists. Till now many esoteric schools don't
take theosophy seriously, and are even hostile to it. It is probably
a bad karma of criticize.
Secondly, HPB criticized rather doctrines than people."


MY ANSWER:
1.
I am puzzled. I did not understand that answer from you - Konstantin Zaitzev
.
I ask politely:
What "strategy of criticize" are you talking about?
Was HPB wrong in her clearly very critical remarks about dead-letter
teachings, the dogamtic christian churches and other religious kinds of
dogmatism, various spiritualistic sorceries and phallisism etc. etc. ??? Was
it wrong to tell the wrong-doers about what they did ???
If so, I would like a clear answer on this.

=======================================================

YOU ARE BOTH RIGHT, THE WORLD AT THAT TIME WAS HEADING TOWARDS SPIRITUALISM, AND HPB NEEDED TO UNDERMINE THAT INCORRECT BELIEF SYSTEM, SO SHE USED CRITICISM. AS WE ALL KNOW IT LATER MISFIRED ON HER, ALTHOUGH I AM SURE SHE WAS AWARE THAT THIS WOULD BE THE RESULT. SPIRITUALISM HAD TO BE STOPPED IN ITS TRACKS BECAUSE IT WOULD HAVE LEAD TO PSYCHISM WHICH WOULD HAVE PUT US ALL IN THE POSITION OF BEING UNCONSCIOUS WORKERS FOR THE DARK SIDE.

2.
Was HPB wrong when she said the following ??? (If so, I would like a clear
answer on this.) :

"There are four (out of the many other) names of the various kinds of
Esoteric Knowledge or Sciences given, even in the esoteric Purānas. There is
(1) Yajna-Vidya,1 knowledge of the occult powers awakened in Nature by the
performance of certain religious ceremonies and rites. (2) Maha-vidya, the
"great knowledge," the magic of the Kabalists and of the Tantrika worship,
often Sorcery of the worst description. (3) Guhya-Vidya, knowledge of the
mystic powers residing in Sound (Ether), hence in the Mantras (chanted
prayers or incantations) and depending on the rhythm and melody used; in
other words a magical performance based on Knowledge of the Forces of Nature
and their correlation; and (4) ATMA-VIDYA, a term which is translated simply
"knowledge of the Soul," true Wisdom by the Orientalists, but which means
far more.
This last is the only kind of Occultism that any theosophist who admires
Light on the Path, and who would be wise and unselfish, ought to strive
after. All the rest is some branch of the "Occult Sciences," i.e., arts
based on the knowledge of the ultimate essence of all things in the Kingdoms
of Nature--such as minerals, plants and animals--hence of things pertaining
to the realm of material nature, however invisible that essence may be, and
howsoever much it has hitherto eluded the grasp of Science. Alchemy,
Astrology, Occult Physiology, Chiromancy, exist in Nature and the exact
Sciences--perhaps so called, because they are found in this age of
paradoxical philosophies the reverse--have already discovered not a few of
the secrets of the above arts. But clairvoyance, symbolised in India as the
"Eye of Siva," called in Japan, "Infinite Vision," is not Hypnotism, the
illegitimate son of Mesmerism, and is not to be acquired by such arts. All
the others may be mastered and results obtained, whether good, bad or
indifferent; but Atma-Vidya sets small value on them. It includes them all
and may even use them occasionally, but it does so after purifying them of
their dross, for beneficent purposes, and taking care to deprive them of
every element of selfish motive. Let us explain: Any man or woman can set
himself or herself to study one or all of the above specified "Occult Arts"
without any great previous preparation, and even without adopting any too
restraining mode of life. One could even dispense with any lofty standard of
morality. In the last case, of course, ten to one the student would blossom
into a very decent kind of sorcerer, and tumble down headlong into black
magic. But what can this matter? The Voodoos and the Dugpas eat, drink and
are merry over heca-tombs of victims of their infernal arts. And so do the
amiable gentlemen vivisectionists and the diploma-ed "Hypnotizers" of the
Faculties of Medicine; tube only difference between the two classes being
that the Voodoos and Dugpas are conscious, and the Charcot-Richet crew
unconscious, Sorcerers. Thus, since both have to reap the fruits of their
labours and achievements in the black art, the Western practitioners should
not have the punishment and reputation without the profits and enjoyments
they may get therefrom. For we say it again, hypnotism and vivisection as
practiced in such schools, are schools, are Sorcery pure and simple, minus a
knowledge that the Voodoos and Dugpas enjoy, and which no Charcot-Richet can
procure for himself in fifty years of hard study and experimental
observation. Let then those who will dabble in magic, whether they
understand its nature or not, but who find the rules imposed upon students
too hard, and who, therefore lay Atma-Vidya or Occultism aside--go without
it. Let them become magicians by all means, even though they do become
Voodoos and Dugpas for the next ten incarnations.

But the interest of our readers will probably centre on those who are
invincibly attracted towards the "Occult," yet who neither realise the true
nature of what they aspire towards, nor have they become passion-proof, far
less truly unselfish."
------- http://www.blavatsky.net/blavatsky/arts/OccultismVersusTheOccultArts.htm -------

HPB HAD TO WARN THE FUTURE GENERATION THAT OCCULTISM, INCORRECTLY PRACTICED COULD LEAD TO THE POSSIBILITY OF INSANITY OR SEXUAL DEBASEMENT.
3.
So all of the later theosophical leaders and authors followed HPB's advice
and did not put aside the esoteric doctrine of Atma-Vidya?
Or was phallic thought-patterns, - dead-letter teachings and christian
dogmatism just so very very important, that HPB's teachings should be PUT
ASIDE?
(If so, I ask the readers to please clarify their stance.)

Would it be fair to judge the various wellknown theosophists teachings and
activities on the spiritual impact they have created upon other people?
I think so. We shall know them on their fruits.

WHO KNOWS HOW MANY PEOPLE HAVE BEEN LED DOWN THE WRONG PATH BY FOLLOWING TEACHINGS THAT WERE ONLY VERIFIABLE TO THEMSELVES (AND A/C TO MOST UNDER THE WING OF A MASTER!)

The following by HPB's hand might serve the readers well - so to compare
with our friend Konstantin Zaitzev answer.
But also to compare with the massmedias and various spiritual authors of a
more or less legal kind.
--- Black Magic in Science ---
"Result on Karmic lines: every Hypnotist, every man of Science, however
well-meaning and honorable, once he has allowed himself to become the
unconscious instructor of one who learns but to abuse the sacred science,
becomes, of course, morally the confederate of every crime committed by this
means.
Such is the consequence of public "Hypnotic" experiments which thus lead to,
and virtually are, BLACK MAGIC."

BECAUSE WE SUBMIT OUR WILL TO BE CONTROLLED BY OTHERS AND OPEN OURSELVES TO THE NATURE OF THE HYPNOTIST. I ASK YOU IS SELF HYPNOSIS A BAD THING?

http://www.theosociety.org/pasadena/hpb-sio/sio-bkmg.htm (HPB 1890)


4.
Is it also true the the Seeker is on a "NEED to Know basis".

Life is art and design.
What you experience and absorb, that is what shapes your Path as a seeker.

I THOUGHT ART WAS VERISIMILITUDE

5.
As HPB said in the above: " ten to one the student would blossom into a very
decent kind of sorcerer, and tumble down headlong into black magic".
And that has never happened in all of the various theosophical groups
history since 1875 ???
I think it has happened to a certain extend.
And this is why we have to relate to this even today - and be aware of this
problems potential existence.

HOW CAN WE UNDERSTAND WHAT EVIL IS UNLESS WE LIFT THE VEIL. I AM NOT SAYING TO PRACTICE EVIL, BUT TO RECOGNISE IT.


Now if the huge majority neo-theosophical defenders still wants to raise
their weapons against the Truth, - it is their choice.

HOW CAN YOU UNDERSTAND THE TRUTH WITHOUT EXPLORING IT?

CASS

Did this help you?

from
M. Sufilight with peace and love...





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