Theos-Talk Archives (January 2005 Message tt00983)

Dear Cass,

All I can say is that such imagination you speak of can only be experienced 
within our own inner self. 

The kind of 3-D visualization I discussed is only a means to that end. If 
you read Patanjali, and practice the Yoga he recommends, it starts out with 
"meditation with a seed." That meditation is based on the images I spoke about, 
while comprehending their intrinsic natures -- which includes their 
impermanence, their emptiness, etc. 

With sufficient practice of such meditation, one then can start meditating 
"without a seed" on those abstractions themselves... And, eventually, through 
such practice arrive at a condition that transcends the lower mind -- which then 
enables one to experience the higher states of consciousness -- where there 
are no more three directional dimensions or any material 3-D images to 
contemplate that one started out with. So, where there are no more "images," how can 
there be any "imagination" (the way we understand it on this plane)?

Therefore, at that higher stage of contemplation, how can anyone describe 
such transcendent reality to anyone else? Thus, the acquiring of the 
"imagination" (if we can call it that) of those "non material states of existence" must 
be based solely on one's own self devised and self determined efforts. In 
other words, to acquire the Buddha mind and be able to contemplate the nature of 
the Buddha form or perfect ethereal Dharmakaya body, and experience Nirvana 
(even to reject it and return as a Bodhisattva) -- is to become the Buddha. 

There's and old saying that if two Buddha's meet on the path, they just pass 
each other by -- since, what have they got to say to each other? :-)

Hope this helps.

Leon


In a message dated 01/24/05 10:21:39 PM, silva_cass@yahoo.com writes:

>Dear Leon,
> 
>The Imagination I was thinking about was not three dimensional, but the
>imagination created by abstract thought. How do you imagine Dharmakaya,
>How do you imagine Nirvana? e.g. I read that the "Planetary Spirit of Gautama
>can pass at will into other bodies (non physical I presume) of more or
>less etherealised matter inhabiting other regions of the Universe. Gautama
>arrived at the gates of heaven as a perfectly ethereal (non spiritual entity)
>- a planetary spirit - formless. He renounced merging into Mystery (beyond
>the veil of primitive kosmic matter) One step removed from the Universal
>and Spiritual world essence - the anima mundi of the greeks, the christian
>personal god".
>This is the imagination I was referring to, to be able to imagine non 
material-three
>dimensional existence.
>Cass
>
>leonmaurer@aol.com wrote:
>
>
>In a message dated 01/19/05 7:03:22 AM, silva_cass@yahoo.com writes:
>
>>That is my question.
>>Cass
>
>Depends on what you are capable of imagining -- based on how well developed
>
>is your power of imagination. 
>
>I could imagine in 3D and color since I was a young child. It started me
>drawing in 3D and perfect perspective (that amazed my family and teachers)
>before I was 7 years old. Most of the students I met, when I studied art in 
my
>teens at a special school for talented children, also had that capability. 
Some 
>of us could even draw in 3D from our imagination and even with our eyes
>closed or not looking at the paper. (In fact, that was one of the tests for 
entry
>into that school.) Such a skill came so naturally to me, that I couldn't
>imagine that anyone else couldn't do it -- until I tried teaching such
>drawing ability to all my untalented neighborhood friends. :-) 
>
>I still believe it can be trained, however -- since, in later years, I was 
>successful in teaching others to visualize in 3-D. Incidentally, only one of 
my 
>brothers had a similar talent (and he became a well known comic book 
>illustrator, and later, an animation and film production designer)... 
Although,
>none of my children showed that same early talent. Incidentally, my intuitive
>
>understanding of how we see and imagine in 3D depth, helped me invent 3D
>Comic books in the early 50's. See: http://www.ray3dzone.com/LM.html 
>
>So, perhaps, for those born with it, it's a talent that was developed in a 
>previous life. (And, therefore, could be trained in this life.) I know that 
>after some years of meditation and visualization practice, I am able to 
imagine 
>forms in 4 and even 5 dimensions. For example, I can see a 4D hypercube or 
>tesseract, and even a 5D hypertesseract in my minds eye... But, I can't
>describe such images -- except, possibly, as a 2-D or 3-D line drawing... 
Vide,
>my chakrafield diagrams -- which symbolically, represents an imaginary 
>cross-section of a 7 or more dimensional sphere. Also, look at how a 4D 
>tesseract is drawn in 2D and animated in 3D at:
>http://www.cut-the-knot.org/Curriculum/Geometry/Tesseract.shtml
>
>Enjoy your imaginings,
>
>Leon...
>