Theos-Talk Archives (January 2005 Message tt00879)

Pedro,

You write:

==================================================
Regarding Mars, Leadbeater's clairvoyant 
descriptions are basically wrong, except for 
the one that says that there is life in Mars. 
At the beginning of the twentieth century it 
was quite laughable to affirm that. It does 
not seem that laughable now in view of expanding
scientific knowledge.
=================================================

Pedro,

Thanks for your reply on this one topic.

I ask you and other interested persons to
reread Mr. Leadbeater's description of
Mars and its people as found at:

http://blavatskyarchives.com/leadbeatermars.htm

Here is Mr. Leadbeater in a very "matter of
fact way" describing Mars and its inhabitants.
This is Mr. Leadbeater in his best writing style....

He doesn't just say a few superfical remarks
but goes into considerable detail about Mars.

Consider one passage:

================================================
In physical appearance the Martians are not unlike ourselves, except 
that they are considerably smaller. The tallest men are not above 
five feet in height and the majority are two or three inches shorter. 
According to our ideas they are somewhat broad in proportion, having 
very great chest capacity - a fact which may possibly be due to the 
rarity of the air and the consequent necessity of deep breathing in 
order fully to oxygenate the blood. The whole civilised population of 
Mars is one race, and there is practically no difference in features 
or complexion, except that, just as among ourselves, there are 
blondes and brunettes, some of the people having a faintly yellowish 
skin and black hair, while the majority have yellow hair and blue or 
violet eyes - somewhat Norwegian in appearance. They dress mostly in 
brilliant colours, and both sexes wear an almost shapeless garment of 
some very soft material which falls straight down from the shoulders 
down to the feet. Generally the feet are bare, though they sometimes 
use a sort of metal sandal or slipper, with a thong round the ankle. 

===================================================

Or take the following:

=====================================================
The King has under him what may be called viceroys of large 
districts, and they in turn have under them governors of smaller 
districts, and so on down to what would be equivalent here to the 
head man of a village. All these officials are chosen by the King 
from this group of specially educated children, and when the time of 
his own death is considered to be approaching it is from them or from 
among the already appointed officials that he chooses his successor. 
========================================================

Or the following:

============================================================
They are very fond of flowers, of which there is a great variety, and 
their towns are built on the general plan of the garden-city, the 
houses usually being one-storeyed only, but built round inner 
courtyards and straggling over a great deal of ground. These houses 
look exteriorly as though built of coloured glass, and indeed the 
material which is used is transparent, but it is somehow so fluted 
that while the persons inside enjoy an almost unimpeded view of their 
gardens, no one from outside can see what is going on in the house. 
===============================================================

and on and on.................

Where and how did Mr. Leadbeater obtain this information about
Mars and its inhabitants?

He writes:

=============================================================
The information which I have given above is based upon observation 
and inquiry during various visits to the planet; yet nearly all of it 
might be found in the works of various writers within the last thirty 
or forty years, and in all such cases it has been impressed by 
someone from Mars, although the very fact of such impression was (at 
least in some cases) quite unknown to the physical writer. 
===============================================================

Leadbeater even goes on to say:

=============================================================
At the present time this secret society [on Mars] is very widely 
spread, and at the head of it at this moment is a pupil of one of our 
Masters. Even now after all these centuries its existence is not 
officially known to the authorities...
===============================================================

Here Leadbeater brings in the Theosophical Masters and says that
the head of this secret Martian society is a pupil of one of
"our Masters".

So if Leadbeater is "basically wrong" in his observations about
Mars, then this Martian "pupil" of the Masters must be simply
a FIGMENT of Mr. Leadbeater's mind, right?

Some might even suggest that Mr. Leadbeater's "Masters" are of the
same quality ---- that is, imaginary!!

Pedro, you write that regarding Mars, "Leadbeater's clairvoyant 
descriptions are basically wrong."

Well, what about his clairvoyant descriptions of Mercury?

He writes:

==================================================================
Of our future home, Mercury, we know much less than of Mars, for 
visits to it have been hurried and infrequent. Many people would 
think it incredible that life such as ours could exist on Mercury, 
with a sun that appears at least seven times as large as it does 
here. The heat, however, is not at all so intense as would be 
supposed....

The influence of gravity both on Mars and Mercury is less than half 
what it is on earth, but while on Mars I did not notice any 
particular way in which advantage had been taken of this. I observed 
on Mercury that the doors of the houses were quite a considerable 
height from the ground, needing what for us would be a respectable 
gymnastic feat to reach them, though on Mercury it is only a slight 
spring which is required. All the inhabitants of that planet are from 
birth possessed of etheric sight; I remember that the fact was first 
brought to my notice by observing a child who was watching the 
movements of some crawling creature; and I saw that when it entered 
its abode he was still able to follow its movements, even when it was 
deep down under the ground.
=========================================================== 

So if Mr. Leadbeater is basically wrong about Mars, then where
did all this detailed information come from?

And remember it is with the same "matter of factness" that Leadbeater
ALSO writes down his clairvoyant observations about the history of 
the planet earth, about the atoms of occult chemistry, about life 
after death, etc. including his descriptions of the Masters and their 
places of residences.

If Leadbeater can be basically wrong in his description of Mars, if 
one can conclude that he was somehow deluded by his own imagination 
or psychic faculty concerning Mars, then the pressing question 
remains: 

how much of his other clairvoyant observations are basically wrong 
and imaginary???

And notice what Madame Blavatsky writes in the second column of the 
following page:

http://blavatskyarchives.com/leadbeatermars.htm

Blavatsky writes:

===========================================================
. . . We find in the romances as in all the so-called scientific 
fictions and spiritistic revelations from moon, stars, and planets, 
merely fresh combinations or modifications of the men and things, the 
passions and forms of life with which we are familiar, when even on 
the other planets of our own system nature and life are entirely 
different from ours. Swedenborg was pre-eminent in inculcating such 
an erroneous belief.
============================================================

Compare and contrast HPB's statement with Mr. Leadbeater's 
explanations:

=================================================================
...yet nearly all of it [the information about the inhabitants of 
Mars] might be found in the works of various writers within the last 
thirty or forty years, and IN ALL CASES it has been impressed BY 
SOMEONE FROM MARS, although the very fact of such impression was (at 
least in some cases) quite unknown to the physical writer.
================================================================

And he also writes:
=================================================================
Some at least of the members of the secret society [on Mars] have 
learnt how to cross without great difficulty the space which 
separates us from Mars, and have therefore at various times tried to 
manifest themselves through mediums at spiritualist seances, or have 
been able, by the methods which they have learnt, to impress their 
ideas upon poets and novelists
=============================================================

But Madame Blavatsky wrote:

===========================================================
Many are the romances and tales, some purely fanciful, others 
bristling with scientific knowledge, which have attempted to imagine 
and describe life on other globes. But one and all, they give but 
some distorted copy of the drama of life around us. It is either, 
with Voltaire, the men of our own race under a microscope, or, with 
de Bergerac, a graceful play of fancy and satire; but we always find 
that at bottom the new world is but the one we ourselves live in. So 
strong is this tendency that even great natural, though non-initiated 
seers, when untrained, fall a victim to it; witness Swedenborg, who 
goes so far as to dress the inhabitants of Mercury, whom he meets 
with in the spirit-world, in clothes such as are worn in Europe. 
=================================================================

It would appear that "this tendency" was strong ENOUGH in Mr. 
Leadbeater also and he fell victim to it.

Would you agree with this Pedro?

More about "this tendency" can be found at:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theos-talk/message/18777

And related issues can be found at:

http://blavatskyarchives.com/theosophy1.htm

http://blavatskyarchives.com/theosophy2.htm

Daniel
http://hpb.cc