Theos-Talk Archives (January 2005 Message tt00728)

Jan 21 2005


No Dennis. The proof or authentication is not always a physical one. 

Does this in any way weaken THEOSOPHY ? I say not at all. Its scope and
the expose made of the Laws of the World and Universe alone prevent that.
Does it extinguish doubt? No, because everyone is free to do that -- and
take the consequences.  

If the existence of a SPIRITUAL rather then a material base is espoused,
then the only argument that can be offered is: Why is there anything? How
can there be any laws, or moral set of effects? The answer is, in practice,
found prevalent everywhere: Science affirms it, and our own experience and
intuition do so also: LAW EXISTS EVERYWHERE. 

It has been said repeatedly by both HPB and W Q Judge that it is a matter of
content and appropriateness; and therefore it escapes virtually any attempt
by a third party (not concerned directly) in making a proof, such as you
suggest with a microscope.

But you might be right also, and it would be up to those who have the
originals to put them to such a test.  

My guess is that it will not help, if at all.

THEOSOPHY cannot be entirely put to the "proving techniques" devised by us,
using our "Lower minds," or such clever instrumentation as they may devise.

This is one reason why the "JUDGE CASE" instigated by A B failed so
dismally.  

By the way, have you seen the new book:

THE JUDGE CASE by E. Pelletier,  

published by the Edmonton T S.   

I have been through it carefully (and I have long been satisfied with the
documents relating to the affair), and find it a very careful and valuable
work.

The "case" is proved again, plainly and with full documentation, to be a
"mare's nest" -- a figment of what seems to me an envious phase of A B's
personality. It must be recalled that several times after years had elapsed
she said she regretted the affair -- but she would never put that in print. 


Look at these again: 


"You and the Theosophists have come to the conclusion that in every case
where a message was found couched in words or sentiments unworthy of
Mahatmas it was produced either by elementals or my own falsification. [
see M L p. 307, 419, 422, 431, 460 ] Believing the latter, no honest man or
woman ought for one moment to permit me, such a fraud, to remain any longer
in the Society...to kick me out--if you really think so. [do you] credit
the idea that They [the Masters] should permit or even know of it and still
use me ! Why, if They are the exalted beings you rightly suppose Them to
be, how could They permit or tolerate for one moment such a deception and
fraud?...little you do know the occult laws I see...Before you volunteer to
serve the Masters you should learn Their philosophy, for otherwise you shall
always sin grievously, though unconsciously and involuntarily, against Them
and those who serve Them, soul and body and spirit."	HPB ART II 509-510


[ HPB gives then, some examples of the occult difficulties under
which she labored in this matter HPB Art II 509-513.]


"The outer senses cannot give a safe final judgment upon a precipitated
message, they can only settle such physical questions as how it came,
through whom, the credibility of the person, and whether any deception on
the objective plane has been practiced. The inner senses, including the
great combining faculty or power of intuition, are the final judges...if one
hitherto supposed to be in communication with the White Adepts comes to us
and says "Here is a message from one of Those," then if we have not
independent power in ourselves of deciding the question on inner knowledge,
the next step is either to believe the report or disbelieve it...[HPB] put
it tersely in this way" "If you think no Mahatma wrote the theories I have
given of man and nature and if you do not believe my report, then you have
to conclude that I did it all." The latter conclusion would lead to the
position that her acts, phenomena, and writings put her in the position
usually accorded by us to a Mahatma. As to the letters or messages of a
personal nature, each one had and has to decide for himself whether or not
to follow the advice given..."	
WQJ ARTICLES I pp. 450-1
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Best wishes,

Dallas

=========================================
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Dennis 
Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2005 5:47 PM
To: 
Subject: Plagiarism, Forgery, duplication of documents, signatures, etc...


Dallas:

I assume that therefore, any of the "questionable" communications from
the latter period of HPB, and all those after her demise, could be
authenticated, if the originals are still in existence, by examining
them with a powerful microscope? Those that show that Herringbone
pattern can be assumed to be "authentic", and those without that
pattern would be questionable, or disallowed as genuine?

Dennis