Theos-Talk Archives (January 2005 Message tt00520)

Hi Katinka,
Thanks for your comments.
What you say is perhaps true and one layer to the whole picture,
however for me this is not good enough and why I can no longer
support the Adyar Society.

My understanding of what the society stood for and HPB's approach to
fearless challenge to ideas are not to be found and infact disallowed
by the Society, especially in the case of Leadbeater.

Which to me is an utter betrayal, I can't read it any other way.
Theosophy in Australia magazine had an article recently that was
critical of some of the ideas in the Secret Doctrine (so well done
Adyar Society I say ! see it wasn't so hard was it) 
Well would the same type of article be allowed on Leadbeater `s writings? 
Hmm I wonder…. It would be a move in the right direction if it did.
I live in hope it will one day happen, but I won't hold my breath.

Cheers
Perry




--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Katinka Hesselink" <mail@k...> wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Criticism in general is hardly allowed in most of the theosophical
> publications. There is a general sense that criticism doesn't help.
> Not that I agree with this, but your suggestion that this is peculiar
> to the writings of Besant and Leadbeater is unfair. You also won't
> find criticism of Blavatsky, Alice Bailey, Krishnamurti, in a
> theosophical publication either. This is generally avoided. Quest
> recently had an article that was critical (though nuanced) on
> Gurdjieff so the tide may be turning... Pedro Oliveira did have an
> article published in which he critisized following HPB
> UNQUESTIONINGLY, but that isn't the same thing as a critical article
> on HPB, as I'm sure the editors realized. 
> 
> Students are left to themselves to find out what is true and in lodges
> and studygroups of course study will end up also comparing doctrines,
> where relevant. 
> 
> The TS-Adyar (the TS-Pasadena at present does the same thing: that is,
> not criticising in general) simply attempts to be impartial, which is
> indeed one of its objectives, IMO. [not in letter, but in spirit]. 
> 
> I've said this before and I'll say this again: theosophists within the
> TS-Adyar that I've met study Blavatsky far more than they do Besant or
> Leadbeater. So if the books written by the latter are still
> best-sellers it is due to their popularity outside the TS. 
> 
> Also: Besant's and Leadbeater's books don't contain merely rubbish.
> Chakra's, aura's, thought-transferrence etc. are facts of life,
> esoteric facts, but facts. Blavatsky hinted at their existence and
> Leadbeater and Besant elaborated on that and were largely correct
> about them(though incorrect in details). Anand's quotes as sent to the
> Young-theosophist forum (and perhaps here as well, I haven't checked
> yet) show that Leadbeater was inconsistent with Blavatsky and the
> Mahatmas on details, but that he also presented many doctrines
> truthfully in general. 
> 
> Katinka Hesselink
> --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "krishtar" <krishtar_a@b...> wrote:
> > Hi Friend
> > Just a comment:
> > I think probably there must be a very important reason for the Adyar
> HQ to act this way.Not accessible for discussion.
> > Maybe because people feel more indentified with CWL´s versions and
> perhaps find easier to study his version of theosophy?
> > And this facility on atracting more people to the society gives the
> HQ an expressive good number of subscriptions and active members and
> for this reason they decide to live it quiet?
> > The reason may be just financial.
> > His teachings are like sugar to ants.
> > Another example:
> > In Brazil spiritism is an ever growing religion just because their
> proclamed beliefs are very easy to accept because the allan Kardec
> books put a great inportance and santifies the life of suffering,
> giving people a relief based on the creed of continuation of life from
> where it stopped on earth.
> > Most of Leadbeater´s beliefs are based on his clairvoyant very
> personal view of Theosophy and they atract more people just as the
> instant-food atracts people who don´t like to cook.
> > Rough example but it works.
> > 
> > Krishtar
> > 
> > PS.:A local curious example: The recent brasilian translation of the
> book " A glimpse at the freemasonry history " by CWL under the
> auspices had among other particularities an editor´s prologue as "
> Leadbeater was inicitated by one of the major occultists of the
> century, the remakable woman H P Blavatsky ".
> >
>
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> > 
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: Perry Coles 
> > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
> > Sent: Monday, January 17, 2005 2:54 AM
> > Subject: Theos-World Why continue to challenge?
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > The reason I think this is an issue worthy of discussion on this
list 
> > is for the follow reasons.
> > 
> > Leadbeater's version of theosophy is still actively promoted in the 
> > Adyar societies publications.
> > His teachings are apparently not allowed to be compared critically 
> > with the teachings of 
> > H P.Blavatsky and her those given in the Mahatma letters in Adyar 
> > theosophical journals and publications.
> > 
> > If this is the case it flies in the face of everything the
society is 
> > supposed to stand for.
> > Namely freedom of enquiry and research for theosophical students.
> > 
> > This is an issue that will not go away until it is dealt with by
the 
> > Adyar Societies leaders.
> > If the Society does not support this basic and fundamental
principal 
> > how can it claim to be upholding both the 3 objects and the freedom 
> > of thought statement?
> > 
> > The issue for me is the principle of freedom of thought being
upheld. 
> > Let Leadbeater's teachings stand on there own merits why apparently 
> > protect them from comparison?
> > A dogma is a teaching that can't be challenged.
> > Have Leadbeater's teachings assumed the status of dogma in the 
> > society?
> > It would seem so.
> > 
> > Leadbeater's shady personal life and history are issues that people 
> > need to investigate and access for themselves and if these issues 
> > can't be discussed here, where else?
> > 
> > There is no excuse for the blocking of commentary and comparison of 
> > Leadbeaters teachings with those of the earlier teachings of 
> > Blavatsky and the Mahatma letters however.
> > 
> > Still waiting for positive confirmation that this is not the case 
> > officially from the society.
> > 
> > So far haven't heard a whisper.
> > 
> > Leadbeater may be dead and gone but his influence and teachings
live 
> > on and remain beyond the reach of any criticism in the society.
> > Quite outrageous..... I find it hard to believe this situation is 
> > just ignored and brushed under the carpet after all these 
> > years......I am still flabbergasted by the whole scenario.
> > 
> > The big question for me is do I just drop it and forget about it 
> > and 'get over it' as they say, or would that just a cop out on my 
> > part???
> > 
> > The way of the bully (and the pedophile for that matter) is one of 
> > disempowerment.
> > A bully is a bully is a bully, passive aggressive or otherwise if I 
> > give into the bully then I have to start dancing to his/her tune.
> > Maybe I've answered my own question.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Perry