Theos-Talk Archives (December 2004 Message tt00298)

In a message dated 12/14/04 10:35:26 PM, aupanishad@msn.com writes:
In response to an astral travel story by ...Kamal-S-Rajput...

>IMHO this cannot be true, unless it is true b___s___. Why do we have 
>a plethora of hearsay evidence for such things, and not a scintilla 
>of scientific, or objective, evidence for such things? Each is 
>entitled to their own fantastic illusions and stories, but, like HPB, 
>I believe these things need to be investigated much, much deeper to 
>prevent charlantry and self-delusion. Are we as de 
>facto "Theosophists" bound to believe everything we hear or see by 
>subjective psychics?

I thought a true or "de facto Theosophist" neither believes nor disbelieves 
anything... And, especially, those things that can only be verified 
subjectively... Before thorough study and practice to find out the truth for oneself. 
Besides, how can we objectively investigate someone else's subjective 
experience, or even our own for that matter?

So, I agree that these things have to be "investigated much, much deeper." 
But, each one must do it for themselves. 

I, for one -- having experienced out of body travel during a Near Death 
Experience, and later under conscious control, and having carefully studied the 
theosophical principles and metaphysical processes behind such experience to my 
own satisfaction -- have no trouble believing (at least the possibility) that 
the stories about it we hear from "subjective psychics" (is there any other 
kind?) are generally true. But, then, how can we know that any particular story 
is not a fabrication with the intent to deceive us, or pump up the teller's 
ego, or told a metaphor whose purpose is to teach us something? 

On the other hand, how can we ever prove that the inner subjective 
experiences of another are or are not simply delusions? Why do we find that everyone 
who supposedly objectively views a crime scene, for example, reports it quite 
differently afterward? Can anyone unequivocally believe anything anyone else 
reports experiencing as entirely true? For that matter, can any of us be 
exactly certain that what we think we subjectively experience ourselves, is not a 
self created delusion (memory overlays, psychological blocks, etc.) or 
externally generated illusion (tricks of light, reflections, etc.)? 

So, I guess all of that means we had better not make any positive statements 
about what we subjectively believe or disbelieve in, or what other people say 
they have experienced -- since there is no way to prove any of it to anyone 
else. :-)

LHM