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Re: Theos-World Pedro on his "Difficulty" about use of concepts "Atma" and "S...

Nov 25, 2004 07:50 PM
by samblo

Thanks for the extracts, I have run into interesting information about the 
Jonangpa School which you show an extract from David Reigle. The paper on 
this website asserts that the Jonangpa School never really become "extinct" but 
that to the contrary continued to exist and today in our time has 5000 Monks 
and 40 Monasteries. Even more interesting is a recounting of the history of the 
suppression of the Jonangpa and others by the Gelugpa School that details the 
Political struggle involving outside "powers" of concern to the Gelugpa. This 
is a most interesting insight from the viewpoint of "operative Karma" in 
action. As an apparent result of the Gelugpa suppression in that time that was 
dedicated to the deflecting of Foreign influence by the ruling power of China, 
later in our time the Chinese, who back then were a "protector" of the Jonangpa 
and several other Schools centuries later invade and ravage Tibet which in our 
time was fully in the control of the Gelugpa resulting in the Tibetan Diaspora 
to the outside world. I have never read this context before recently and 
found it stimulating. With this new knowledge of the continued existence of the 
Jonangpa School we might now perhaps be justified in expecting to see some 
actual translations of their Texts from the "horses mouth."

Jonang Order

Also, another nuance I recently have read is that of a unique School in Tibet 
Called the "Rimed Movement, 1813-1899" this School revived Dolpopa's Teaching 
and was not affiliated with any of the Classical Tibetan Orders or Schools 
and was composed of individual Teachers who though independent were also 
respected by the Classical Orders of Tibet. This context made me think about the 
Mahatma's and how they were said to have a unique reception and respect by the 
prevailing Tibetan Orders yet were "independent" of them in various ways.

There were three primary Founders of this movement:
1. Lodro Thaye (blo gros mtha' yas) 1813-1899
2. Jamyang Khyentse Wangpo (jam dbyangs mkyhen brtse'i dbang po) 1820-1892
3. Chogyur Dechen Lingpa (mchog 'gyur bde chen gling pa) 1829-1870
They would have been contempory with Madam Blavatsky (1 & 2 especially).
Are there any references to them or the rimed Movement any where in the 
Theosophical Archives? 
A current Rimed Teacher:
namgyalgar-Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Another thing is the usage of the terms "Father-Mother" which is seen in the 
Dzyan stanza's "Father-Mother spin a web,"
two of the three Primary Tantra's are specifically and respectfully referred 
to as Father and Mother. 


"Within this scheme of anuttarayoga tantra:

father tantra emphasizes illusory body practice, 
mother tantra emphasizes clear light practice," 

I hope Reigle is reading these posts, maybe he can give us his perspective, 
as well as others on the Forum. 

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