Theos-Talk Archives (September 2004 Message tt00835)

You may react about the word politics and the idea, but the real 
world is out there. Yes providing food and shelter for poor people 
would not solve many major problems but would relieve their 
suffering. What do you think about the great theosophists? That they 
were walking on pink clouds talking about the beautiness of the 
nirvana and the astral body? That they were closed in a guetto and 
not acting in practical ways for a better world? They were and they 
are active workers for a better world, not closed in a guetto that 
will keep discussing only about races and astral bodies, but working 
hard for a better world. And this would you accept or not also 
include politics.

Erica 


--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Erica Letzerich" 
<eletzerich@y...> wrote:
> Why do you think the Mahatmas were contacting Sinnet and also so 
> interested in Hume? Because of Sinnet's spiritual potencies? Or 
> because Sinnet was the editor of one important newspaper and could 
> influence positive the cause, causing a stronger impact in the 
> society at the period? Is this not political strategies? The 
Mahatma 
> KH and M. were also involved in politics, and this can be traced 
in 
> their letters.
> So dont focus on Annie Besant only, because a carefull study of 
the 
> history of the T.S. will point out that many were involved in 
> politics and during a period of time also Blavatsky, or why she 
> would have been in a war with Garibaldi?
> 
> Erica
> 
> --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Morten N. Olesen" <global-
> theosophy@a...> wrote:
> > 
> > Hallo Erica and all,
> > 
> > My views are:
> > 
> > My views are in the below using ***.
> > 
> > 
> > M. Sufilight with peace and love...
> > 
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "Erica Letzerich" <eletzerich@y...>
> > To: <theos-talk@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2004 2:35 PM
> > Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: CORRECTION: Can theos-talk look at 
> the world?
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Hi Morten,
> > 
> > So you tell me is the T.S Hindu, Buddhist, Taoist, Christian etc 
> because
> > some members may make comparative studies of the above religions 
> and many
> > others? Comparative studies also related to politics would not 
> create a
> > label in the T.S. as much the studies of religion and philosophy 
> did not
> > create a label.
> > Blavatsky mentions something that did not change, the T.S. would 
> not ever
> > get involved with politics. But it is an individual right to get 
> involved
> > with politics and that was aplied for Besant too.
> > ***
> > Yes agreed, if one doesn't damage the theosophical cause. (Think 
> about it.)
> > That was why I agrred upon fighting "corruption in government".
> > If this happens, one should be held accountable for doing so.
> > I said in the previous email, that Annie Besant damaged the 
> theosophical
> > cause - although I am sure she did it unintentionally.
> > Blavatsky quite interestingly states in her book the Key to 
> Theosophy
> > (Section 12 ):
> > "Moreover, political action must necessarily vary with the 
> circumstances of
> > the time and with the
> > idiosyncracies of individuals. "
> > ...and few lines later...
> > "As a society they can
> > only act together in matters which are common to all -- that is, 
in
> > Theosophy itself; as individuals, each is left perfectly free to 
> follow out
> > his or her particular line of political thought and action, so 
> long as this
> > does not conflict with Theosophical principles or hurt the 
> Theosophical
> > Society."
> > 
> > That is why I think Annie Besant went too far.
> > Do I need to repeat it one more time?
> > ***
> > 
> > 
> > Freedom of The Society
> > 
> > 'The Theosophical Society, while cooperating with all other 
bodies 
> whose
> > aims and activities make such cooperation possible, is and must 
> remain an
> > organisation entirely independent of them, not committed to any 
> objects save
> > its own, and intent on developing its own work on the broadest 
and 
> most
> > inclusive lines, so as to move towards its own goal as indicated 
> in and by
> > the pursuit of those objects and that Divine Wisdom which in the 
> abstract is
> > implicit in the title, The Theosophical Society.
> > 
> > Since Universal Brotherhood and the Wisdom are undefined and 
> unlimited, and
> > since there is complete freedom for each and every member of the 
> Society in
> > thought and action, the Society seeks ever to maintain its own 
> distinctive
> > and unique character by remaining free of affiliation or 
> identification with
> > any other organisation. '
> > 
> > - Resolution passed by the General Council of The 
Theosophical 
> Society,
> > 1949
> > 
> > ***
> > Quoting an excerpt from the above:
> > "Society seeks ever to maintain its own distinctive and unique 
> character by
> > remaining free of affiliation or identification with any other
> > organisation."
> > 
> > Erica, You, just tell that to all those who find Annie Besant to 
> be the
> > Mother of India.
> > 
> > -------
> > M. Sufilight with peace and love...
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ****
> > 
> > "Morten N. Olesen" <global-theosophy@a...> wrote:
> > 
> > Hello Erica and all,
> > 
> > The below are how TS related to Politics before Besant came and 
> changed it
> > all.
> > 
> > Letter I -- 1888 - Second Annual Convention -- April 22-23, by 
H. 
> P.
> > Blavatsky:
> > 
> > "I am confident that, when the real nature of Theosophy is 
> understood, the
> > prejudice against it, now so unfortunately prevalent, will die 
out.
> > Theosophists are of necessity the friends of all movements in 
the 
> world,
> > whether intellectual or simply practical, for the amelioration 
of 
> the
> > condition of mankind. We are the friends of all those who fight 
> against
> > drunkenness, against cruelty to animals, against injustice to 
> women, against
> > corruption in society or in government, although we do not 
meddle 
> in
> > politics. We are the friends of those who exercise practical 
> charity, who
> > seek to lift a little of the tremendous weight of misery that is 
> crushing
> > down the poor. But, in our quality of Theosophists, we cannot 
> engage in any
> > one of these great works in particular. As individuals we may do 
> so, but as
> > Theosophists we have a larger, more important, and much more 
> difficult work
> > to do. "
> > 
> > M. Sufilights comment:
> > So how can we do a comparative study of politics while we not 
> meddle with
> > politics ? I would really like to know that.
> > As I see it, we can only do so when we fight corruption in 
> government. And
> > while we relate to the below remarks on politics,
> > which Blavatsky formulated in The Key to Theosophy.
> > She says: "as a society it takes absolutely no part in any 
> national or party
> > politics".
> > So how to make comparative studies in our present informations 
> society while
> > NOT taking "part in any national or party politics" ???
> > I find this to be an important question to answer. I think it 
can 
> only be
> > done while fighting corruption in government.
> > And how do we define the word corruption? And how did Blavatsky 
> define it?
> > 
> > 
> > -------
> > "The Key to Theosophy" written by Blavatsky (Section )
> > 
> > POLITICS AND SOCIAL REFORM
> > 
> > 
> > "Unconcerned about politics; hostile to the insane dreams of 
> Socialism and
> > Communism, which it abhors--as both are but disguised 
conspiracies 
> of brutal
> > force and sluggishness against honest labor the Society cares 
but 
> little
> > about the outward human management of the material world." HPB
> > --"What are the Theosophists ?" Theost. Oct 1879, p. 7
> > 
> > 
> > "...Work, therefore, to bring about the moral regeneration of 
the 
> cultured
> > but far more immoral classes before you attempt to do the same 
for 
> our
> > ignorant younger Brethren. The latter was undertaken years ago, 
> and is
> > carried on to this day, yet with no perceptible good results. It 
> is not
> > evident that the reason for this lies in the fact that [except] 
> for a few
> > earnest, sincere and all-sacrificing workers in that field, the 
> great
> > majority of the volunteers consists of those same frivolous, 
ultra-
> selfish
> > classes, who 'play at charity' and whose ideas of the 
amelioration 
> of the
> > physical and moral status of the poor are confined to the hobby 
> that money
> > and the Bible alone can do it."
> > HPB -- "The Tidal Wave" Lucifer, Nov. 1889
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > THE RELATIONS OF THE T. S. TO POLITICAL REFORMS.
> > 
> > 
> > ENQUIRER. The Theosophical Society is not, then, a political 
> organization?
> > 
> > THEOSOPHIST. Certainly not. It is international in the highest 
> sense in that
> > its members comprise men and women of all races, creeds, and 
forms 
> of
> > thought, who work together for one object, the improvement of 
> humanity; but
> > as a society it takes absolutely no part in any national or 
party 
> politics.
> > 
> > ENQUIRER. Why is this?
> > 
> > THEOSOPHIST. Just for the reasons I have mentioned. Moreover, 
> political
> > action must necessarily vary with the circumstances of the time 
> and with the
> > idiosyncracies of individuals. While from the very nature of 
their 
> position
> > as Theosophists the members of the T. S. are agreed on the 
> principles of
> > Theosophy, or they would not belong to the society at all, it 
does 
> not
> > thereby follow that they agree on every other subject. As a 
> society they can
> > only act together in matters which are common to all -- that is, 
in
> > Theosophy itself; as individuals, each is left perfectly free to 
> follow out
> > his or her particular line of political thought and action, so 
> long as this
> > does not conflict with Theosophical principles or hurt the 
> Theosophical
> > Society.
> > 
> > [ ...TRY TO READ THE ABOVE AGAIN...ERICA ]
> > 
> > 
> > -------
> > 
> > So, when reading the above, I think that Blavatsky forwarded 
more 
> than one
> > view upon how Theosophists relates to politics.
> > And this is interesting.
> > But all in all when we view the writings of Blavatsky 
> chronologically, then
> > what I get from it is, that the closet we can come to discussing 
> politics is
> > that we "fight corruption in government" by relating this fight 
to
> > theosophical principles.
> > 
> > Blavatsky also quite interestingly states:
> > "Moreover, political action must necessarily vary with the 
> circumstances of
> > the time and with the
> > idiosyncracies of individuals. "
> > ...and few lines later...
> > "As a society they can
> > only act together in matters which are common to all -- that is, 
in
> > Theosophy itself; as individuals, each is left perfectly free to 
> follow out
> > his or her particular line of political thought and action, so 
> long as this
> > does not conflict with Theosophical principles or hurt the 
> Theosophical
> > Society."
> > 
> > And that is why I think Annie Besant went to far.
> > She did hurt - although for sure unintentionally - The 
> Theosophical Society
> > !
> > 
> > -------
> > 
> > So Erica, I conclude, that your emailed words has to take the 
> above issues
> > into careful consideration before any comparative study in 
politics
> > are being released within the TS. That is if you are not denying 
> the old
> > woman Blavatsky her say. One who worked togehter with the 
Masters.
> > 
> > 
> > from
> > M. Sufilight with peace and love...
> > 
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "Erica Letzerich"
> > To:
> > Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2004 9:35 AM
> > Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: CORRECTION: Can theos-talk look at 
> the world?
> > 
> > 
> > > The second object of the T.S. is the comparative studies of 
> religion,
> > philosophy and science, politics are also a science, so any 
> discussion
> > related to politic systems are in perfect accordance with the 
> objects of the
> > T.S. Also the first object of the T.S. Universal Brotherhood is 
> also close
> > related to the society, so to discuss about social problems and 
> politics
> > under the light of the perennial philosophy it seems to me to be 
> in perfect
> > harmony with the objects of the T.S.
> > >
> > > Erica
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Erica Letzerich .'.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ---------------------------------
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish.
> > 
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Yahoo! Groups Links