Theos-Talk Archives (September 2004 Message tt00830)

Hallo Erica and all,

My views are:

My views are in the below using ***.


M. Sufilight with peace and love...

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Erica Letzerich" <eletzerich@yahoo.com>
To: <theos-talk@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2004 2:35 PM
Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: CORRECTION: Can theos-talk look at the world?



Hi Morten,

So you tell me is the T.S Hindu, Buddhist, Taoist, Christian etc because
some members may make comparative studies of the above religions and many
others? Comparative studies also related to politics would not create a
label in the T.S. as much the studies of religion and philosophy did not
create a label.
Blavatsky mentions something that did not change, the T.S. would not ever
get involved with politics. But it is an individual right to get involved
with politics and that was aplied for Besant too.
***
Yes agreed, if one doesn't damage the theosophical cause. (Think about it.)
That was why I agrred upon fighting "corruption in government".
If this happens, one should be held accountable for doing so.
I said in the previous email, that Annie Besant damaged the theosophical
cause - although I am sure she did it unintentionally.
Blavatsky quite interestingly states in her book the Key to Theosophy
(Section 12 ):
"Moreover, political action must necessarily vary with the circumstances of
the time and with the
idiosyncracies of individuals. "
...and few lines later...
"As a society they can
only act together in matters which are common to all -- that is, in
Theosophy itself; as individuals, each is left perfectly free to follow out
his or her particular line of political thought and action, so long as this
does not conflict with Theosophical principles or hurt the Theosophical
Society."

That is why I think Annie Besant went too far.
Do I need to repeat it one more time?
***

Erica

Freedom of The Society

'The Theosophical Society, while cooperating with all other bodies whose
aims and activities make such cooperation possible, is and must remain an
organisation entirely independent of them, not committed to any objects save
its own, and intent on developing its own work on the broadest and most
inclusive lines, so as to move towards its own goal as indicated in and by
the pursuit of those objects and that Divine Wisdom which in the abstract is
implicit in the title, The Theosophical Society.

Since Universal Brotherhood and the Wisdom are undefined and unlimited, and
since there is complete freedom for each and every member of the Society in
thought and action, the Society seeks ever to maintain its own distinctive
and unique character by remaining free of affiliation or identification with
any other organisation. '

- Resolution passed by the General Council of The Theosophical Society,
1949

***
Quoting an excerpt from the above:
"Society seeks ever to maintain its own distinctive and unique character by
remaining free of affiliation or identification with any other
organisation."

Erica, You, just tell that to all those who find Annie Besant to be the
Mother of India.

-------
M. Sufilight with peace and love...




****

"Morten N. Olesen" <global-theosophy@adslhome.dk> wrote:

Hello Erica and all,

The below are how TS related to Politics before Besant came and changed it
all.

Letter I -- 1888 - Second Annual Convention -- April 22-23, by H. P.
Blavatsky:

"I am confident that, when the real nature of Theosophy is understood, the
prejudice against it, now so unfortunately prevalent, will die out.
Theosophists are of necessity the friends of all movements in the world,
whether intellectual or simply practical, for the amelioration of the
condition of mankind. We are the friends of all those who fight against
drunkenness, against cruelty to animals, against injustice to women, against
corruption in society or in government, although we do not meddle in
politics. We are the friends of those who exercise practical charity, who
seek to lift a little of the tremendous weight of misery that is crushing
down the poor. But, in our quality of Theosophists, we cannot engage in any
one of these great works in particular. As individuals we may do so, but as
Theosophists we have a larger, more important, and much more difficult work
to do. "

M. Sufilights comment:
So how can we do a comparative study of politics while we not meddle with
politics ? I would really like to know that.
As I see it, we can only do so when we fight corruption in government. And
while we relate to the below remarks on politics,
which Blavatsky formulated in The Key to Theosophy.
She says: "as a society it takes absolutely no part in any national or party
politics".
So how to make comparative studies in our present informations society while
NOT taking "part in any national or party politics" ???
I find this to be an important question to answer. I think it can only be
done while fighting corruption in government.
And how do we define the word corruption? And how did Blavatsky define it?


-------
"The Key to Theosophy" written by Blavatsky (Section )

POLITICS AND SOCIAL REFORM


"Unconcerned about politics; hostile to the insane dreams of Socialism and
Communism, which it abhors--as both are but disguised conspiracies of brutal
force and sluggishness against honest labor the Society cares but little
about the outward human management of the material world." HPB
--"What are the Theosophists ?" Theost. Oct 1879, p. 7


"...Work, therefore, to bring about the moral regeneration of the cultured
but far more immoral classes before you attempt to do the same for our
ignorant younger Brethren. The latter was undertaken years ago, and is
carried on to this day, yet with no perceptible good results. It is not
evident that the reason for this lies in the fact that [except] for a few
earnest, sincere and all-sacrificing workers in that field, the great
majority of the volunteers consists of those same frivolous, ultra-selfish
classes, who 'play at charity' and whose ideas of the amelioration of the
physical and moral status of the poor are confined to the hobby that money
and the Bible alone can do it."
HPB -- "The Tidal Wave" Lucifer, Nov. 1889



THE RELATIONS OF THE T. S. TO POLITICAL REFORMS.


ENQUIRER. The Theosophical Society is not, then, a political organization?

THEOSOPHIST. Certainly not. It is international in the highest sense in that
its members comprise men and women of all races, creeds, and forms of
thought, who work together for one object, the improvement of humanity; but
as a society it takes absolutely no part in any national or party politics.

ENQUIRER. Why is this?

THEOSOPHIST. Just for the reasons I have mentioned. Moreover, political
action must necessarily vary with the circumstances of the time and with the
idiosyncracies of individuals. While from the very nature of their position
as Theosophists the members of the T. S. are agreed on the principles of
Theosophy, or they would not belong to the society at all, it does not
thereby follow that they agree on every other subject. As a society they can
only act together in matters which are common to all -- that is, in
Theosophy itself; as individuals, each is left perfectly free to follow out
his or her particular line of political thought and action, so long as this
does not conflict with Theosophical principles or hurt the Theosophical
Society.

[ ...TRY TO READ THE ABOVE AGAIN...ERICA ]


-------

So, when reading the above, I think that Blavatsky forwarded more than one
view upon how Theosophists relates to politics.
And this is interesting.
But all in all when we view the writings of Blavatsky chronologically, then
what I get from it is, that the closet we can come to discussing politics is
that we "fight corruption in government" by relating this fight to
theosophical principles.

Blavatsky also quite interestingly states:
"Moreover, political action must necessarily vary with the circumstances of
the time and with the
idiosyncracies of individuals. "
...and few lines later...
"As a society they can
only act together in matters which are common to all -- that is, in
Theosophy itself; as individuals, each is left perfectly free to follow out
his or her particular line of political thought and action, so long as this
does not conflict with Theosophical principles or hurt the Theosophical
Society."

And that is why I think Annie Besant went to far.
She did hurt - although for sure unintentionally - The Theosophical Society
!

-------

So Erica, I conclude, that your emailed words has to take the above issues
into careful consideration before any comparative study in politics
are being released within the TS. That is if you are not denying the old
woman Blavatsky her say. One who worked togehter with the Masters.


from
M. Sufilight with peace and love...

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Erica Letzerich"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2004 9:35 AM
Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: CORRECTION: Can theos-talk look at the world?


> The second object of the T.S. is the comparative studies of religion,
philosophy and science, politics are also a science, so any discussion
related to politic systems are in perfect accordance with the objects of the
T.S. Also the first object of the T.S. Universal Brotherhood is also close
related to the society, so to discuss about social problems and politics
under the light of the perennial philosophy it seems to me to be in perfect
harmony with the objects of the T.S.
>
> Erica




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