Theos-Talk Archives (September 2004 Message tt00410)

Hallo Leon and all,

My views are given in the below using ***.
I am in the below only referring to the 3rd edition of the text.


from
M. Sufilight with peace and love...

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <leonmaurer@a...>
To: <theos-talk@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 10:26 AM
Subject: Re: Theos-World practicing universal brotherhood rather than merely
mouthing the concept


In a message dated 09/11/04 9:14:23 AM, global-theosophy@a... writes:

>I think that my view is a bit different.
>I think most of what is going on both here at this forum and at other
places
>has to do with conditioning and the use of safeguards.
>
>-------
>Her is a little text on higher learning...
>--- It is not an easy text to most people. ---
>
>Read it carefully if you are interested...

[LM] Could the above be taken as a perfect example of (pre-) "conditioning"
used as a "safeguard" to assure that any disagreement of "most people" with
the writers views could be attributed to either misunderstanding, lack of
careful reading, or disinterest?

Does it also serve an attempt to condition the few people, who might be
interested and normally careful readers, into assuming that every conclusion
or
statement made is true or meaningful no matter how difficult it is to follow
the
logic leading to them?
***
But, It (3rd edition) could also be a different attempt, could it not?
You could have added: --- Or does it also serve an attempt to lead you so,
that if you
know that the text are only a pile of shit - then you better explain it
using a polite tone of voice. ---


>:-)
***


As for the content and the purpose of the below essay... It seems to be that
there is a confusion between Teaching and Learning as well as between the
different ways that theosophy can be taught or learned -- besides organized
schools, gurus and group meetings, or online forums.

It seems to me that, for most of us desiring to follow the steep and narrow
path toward self knowledge -- rather than talking about the problems of such
group teaching and conditioned learning (without offering solutions useful
to
theosophical students) -- the best and most direct way of learning and
absorbing the theosophical truths thoroughly (in conjunction with correct
meditative
practices so as to ultimately reach self realization and emancipation or
enlightenment) is; Through independent search based on one's own self
devised and
self determined efforts, along with an open mind that studies ALL the great
teachers through their direct interpreters (need we name them?)...
***
Leon: If all young students were capeable of reading that fast and digesting
ALL the great Teachers
then it would be a good idea. But they most often are not. So you idea is
not that promising.
You will have to come up with something better.

Your views Leon about a "search based on one's own self devised and
self determined efforts" will as the text says only lead you or any student
to a certain
spiritual stage or level where you or they (in most cases) will indeed be in
need of a Teacher or a Guide -
OR else not get much further. Because the student do not know, what the
student spiritually needs, but the student
- for sure - know what he or she WANTS. This is the truth about the matter.
Why do you think Blavatsky took her time educating a small carefully
seleected group at the Esoteric Section?


***
And, by
comparison and synthesis of their teachings, along with self knowledge
through
direct experience -- by looking within and observing ones own body, mind and
self,
as well as their analogous and corresponding relationship to the entire
universe (as above, so below) -- to pull oneself up by ones own bootstraps
and
ultimately arrive at a correct understanding of the true nature of reality
and the
conscious beings that guide it, along with a full understanding of their
powers of creation and destruction, the karmic laws that govern them, and
the
responsibilities such knowledge and wisdom implies.
***
Else it is a good idea.

***

So, what need then for schools, teachers, gurus, authorities, and other
forms
of indirect and non self verified teaching? Besides simply pointing to the
way that they obtained enlightenment, how can any teacher, no matter how
steeped in knowledge and wisdom, teach us the true nature of transcendental
reality,
or how to overcome the obstacles on our own individual paths? (Not to say
that group discussions, along with questions and answers in open forum,
between
students of different degrees of knowledge -- such as the methods used by
ULT,
that has no "teachers" or organized teaching curricula -- is not of value to
serious seekers starting out on their path in this life. )
***
Yes. But later it will not be enough.
The student will need a spiritual guide or Teacher.
Else the student will run around in circles of repetition, waste time, or
fall and become a Dugpa (evil magician),
or run wild in a "Leon maze". >:-)

The problem however is that the student often mistakes the spiritual Teacher
to be real when it is in fact
a fumbling fool - a new age scholar who sometimes even dares to call himself
(or herself) a Theosophist
or a Lama.
Well imaging that to be the truth for a while.
And the student also often thinks by himself, that he has matured and are
now ready for a spiritiaul Teacher.
But the student then forgets, that it is the Teacher who finds the student
and it is not the opposite way around.
Think about that.
***
Is not that what theosophical learning is all about? Could it be that this
was what Krishnamurti meant when he spoke of the search for truth and the
means
for attaining one's own enlightenment being a "pathless path"?
***
I don't know, what you really want with such "Pathless thoughts".
Krishnamurti (known as THE World Teacher, Maitreya) smoked cigarets and was
lost in a maze of selfdeluded smoke.
Can you not see that Leon?
What Krishnamurti lectured was only meant for a few philosophical crancks
like you and a few others - myself included.
Many students will never benefit from Krishnamurti's teachings - they will
just waste much time trying to do so.
http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/J.+Krishnamurti

The same can be said about the text I emailed.
But I know about it and recognise it.

M. Sufilight with peace and love...
***

Is not that the same as the advice and instructions given to her students by
HPB (as well, I assume, by the Masters to her)? Did she not refer us to ALL
the wise men of antiquity in all her writings?

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