Theos-Talk Archives (September 2004 Message tt00369)

Sept 12 2004



Dear Steven:



"Cultural differences" are but the veneer of the moment - a passing phase of
this incarnation and of no significance to the Buddhi-Manas the Higher Ego
and the higher self - the ATMA inside each one. 



It is only the selfish isolated differentiating Lower Mind that gets
embroiled in the ephemera and the transient and being enmeshed, as in a
spider's web, it struggles to extricate itself without first seeking the
reason for involvement, and second, the principles that cover such things. 



The duality of the mind is to first be observed, then studied and learned
The only way is through the study and affirmation of the moral and
unselfish, general, and universal principles of life - based on individual
immortality and the all-pervasive ATMA / BUDDHI. 



Can you think of anything else more basic or more persistent?



On the other hand the invasion of another's privacy, when warning has been
posted is incorrect in ordinary law and Occultly. It is only when a TRUE
chela/guru occult relationship has been welded that such perceptions become
a part of the teaching/learning process of the chela. The Chela in question
is always the "Lower Manas." 



See notes below.



Best wishes



Dallas

===========================================



-----Original Message-----
From: Steven 
Sent: Sunday, September 12, 2004 7:50 AM
To: 
Subject: [Reading Thought Forms



Dal-Thanks for presenting this concern to the group.




I think, for most people, reading their own thoughts with 
understanding and consistancy, provides enough difficulty. 



Even 
though one or another individual may say that they either wish to or have
read another's thoughts, they are usually wishing for powers, and not for
any helpful motive, but just for unhealthy curiosity. To this extent I feel
your understanding of HPB about these things is correct.




However, I think it is true, in line with what HPB says in the 10 items
of Oriental Pyschology, 



=======================================



DTB Please give exact quote ?



========================================



that different cultures have arrived at different "magics", simply by
natural, or unnatural, involvement with particular groups of elementals, 



=====================================



DTB Was this because of choices consciously made ?



Are not karma and motive, the basis for establishing Karmic relations with
the elemental and astral world?



+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++



so that they have an easy assistance from their surrounding elemental
environment in some kinds of divination. Therefore, some folks will have an
extrasensory ability in some areas, but mostly just enough to wet their
appetites for more. 





This is because, regardless of our sympathys with Science and cultural
materialism, we either want to go to someone who, seemingly out of thin air,
can know something we don't, or divine other's intentions ourselves. 



======================================



DTB Our Science is totally oblivious of this is it not?



=====================================



And, I feel that this happens precisely because 
of the control material Science tries to through over us in regards to these
subjects, so inwardly we want that awareness we subconsciously know is
there, whether Science says it is foolishness or not.





=========================================



DTB What does "subconscious" mean in THEOSOPHY ? 



Lower manas ? Not under control? If so, why?



===========================================


It would be interesting to live in a culture which supports 
theosophical interest in what we are discussing, to see if such a 
culture would learn a moral respect for the use of such powers, than the
nearly immoral disrespect for them, which I feel indentures misuse.



=======================================



DTB Only a culture where absolute honesty and brotherhood are a fact
observed by ALL, answers to that and that is THEOSOPHY 

======================================



Steve
--- , "W. Dallas TenBroeck" 
<dalval14@e...> wrote:
> Sept 11 2004
> 
> As far as I know HPB said it was black magic to invade another's 
mind and
> read his inner thoughts if not given permission to do so.
> 
> We all know this. It is a part of the automatic warning system 
called the
> "Voice of Conscience." It comes from past experience, and is 
stored in
> Buddhi-Manas. 
> 
> "Thought forms" was not a phrase HPB used. It was used after her 
death by
> some who wanted to bring The THEOSOPHICAL SOCIETY closer to the 
faction
> interested in psychic phenomena and illicit dealing with the astral 
world
> and its denizens. 
> 
> In the original literature this is made very plain. 
> 
> Has anyone got a definite reference?
> 
> 
> Best wishes, 
> 
> Dallas
> 
> =========================================
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Eldon 
> Sent: Friday, September 10, 2004 4:17 PM
> To:
> Subject: Re: Reading Thought Forms
> 
> At 06:33 AM 9/10/2004, you wrote:
> 
> >Is not reading thought forms generated by someone is reading 
someone's
> >thought? If that be the case, is it not an invasion of privacy 
unless the
> >person who generated the thought gives permission? Did HPB comment 
on this
> >issue in any of her writings?
> >
> >Anyone cares to comment?
> >
> >mkr
> 
> =======================================
> 
> Since you're inviting comments, I'll throw out a few ideas that 
occur to me 
> in reading your question. It would be interesting to see what 
others think
> too.
> 
> I'd say that if you're just reading the ideas that someone has put 
down on 
> paper, you're just reinforcing those ideas in the thought 
atmosphere of the 
> earth, making them easier for others to think. A particular set of 
ideas 
> are strengthened as a large number of people think them, until they 
take on 
> archetypal qualities. At that point -- who knows? -- perhaps some 
being 
> could embody itself by giving sentience to that collective image.
> 
> I don't think that you would be building a personal relationship 
with the 
> author of the words that you read, unless there was a two-way 
connection 
> between you and the other that already existed. Then your reading 
the words 
> would take you, in your mind's eye, to that person based upon the 
strength 
> of the bond you have to him or her and how much those words carry 
his or 
> her particular swabhava or personal qualities.
> 
> -- Eldon





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