Theos-Talk Archives (August 2004 Message tt00392)

Aug 20 2004	

Re: "seeing the form of a Nirmanakaya."
Early history of the THEOSOPHICAL MOVEMENT 

Dear Friends:

May I break in on this exchange?

>From what I secure as definitions in THEOSOPHY a "Nirmanakaya" works under
KARMA on the astral and the Akasic plane, and has no need for a "form."  

If a Nirmanakaya needs a form" on the physical plane and Karma permits, we
would have a Mahatma. 

>From all accounts, "seeing a Mahatma" implies we are doing serous work, for
Humanity and THEOSOPHY. The Mahatmas have nothing to prove to occasional
dilettantes. They say: "Study our philosophy, serve our humanity."

I would say this line of inquiry is futile for the reason that anyone saying
either yes or no, has nothing more to substantiate it to others than their
account.  

My reaction is "So what?" Who is being benefited? If it is selfish, then
its value seems minimal and also the rule of secrecy on such maters, being
violated, any spiritual good is lost. 

In any case, statements such as "I have been there." Or I (or others) have
seen ---!" That is testimony not evidence. It is a type of one
up-manship, is it not?

Acceptance of another's views ought to depend on their history of veracity
accuracy and an evidence of "intuitive perception" of their being an active
vehicle of the "Manifested Avalokiteshwara."

And that does not end argument or debate.

The only value to any testimony is its embedded logic. Our minds can begin
to grasp at that. 

How does any such statement "stack up" to: Universal Spirit, Universal
Law, and the brotherhood of Total MONADIC Evolution? What moral virtue is
to be derived from such a persona event?

If anyone has compared CWL's writings with those of WQJ and HPB they should
detect the difference, and require no further proof.

Reports and discussions of "phenomenal appearances" is interesting for the
curious. Unless one proceeds to probe for the reason, such events (if true)
amuse and are the fodder of curiosity seekers.  

Lets ask the question: After any individual phenomenal event, what has been
learned? Is it of value to humanity at large? How does it tally with
similar events in the past ?

Are we studying philosophy with a view to approaching the Inner Master --
our HIGHER SELF - ATMA? Or are we indulging in Lower-Self, psychic
amusements? 

Only answer can be made interiorly to ones' self.

Best wishes, 

Dallas

===============================
 

-----Original Message-----
From: S

Subject: Re: Leadbeater & Besant about Each Other

St---

Thanks for your comments. 

But the question I asked remains, has any one on this Forum during their
current life time directly seen the Nirmanakaya Phenomenal form of either
Charles leadbeater or William Quan Judge? 

A large part of what Madame Blavatsky and other First Circle Founding
Members give testimony to is this type of Phenomenal experience. 

In part one reason I asked was that certain statements about Madame
Blavatsky's Interior Being having been a High Adept, and, that certain
statements that William Quan Judge was of a similar type Interiorly, also,
in the Besant-Leadbeater Period that followed Post Blavatsky similar
allusions were made in regard to leadbeater. 

If continuity of consciousness in the sense of Adepts, Tulku, etc is basis
of the postulates given in Theosophy then it seems at least a possibility
that some such events may have occurred to some individuals. If it could be
ascertained to have actually happened it might contribute to a wider view
Theosophically. 

Satya Sai Baba of Shirdi was know to have performed many appearances to
others while alive and after his death, as well as other accomplished
Yogins. The context of passing the Torch in continuation of the Goal of the
Brotherhood might also revolve around this point.

J