Theos-Talk Archives (August 2004 Message tt00235)

Hi Paul , It's very interesting about the book sales and perhaps my 
perception is more from the Lodge I was a member of here in Australia 
and also going by the recommended reading lists in Adyar pamphlets 
and magazines.
Adyar affiliated lodges are probably not a good reflection of how 
much the HPB material is read generally and now with the internet 
it's opened up a whole new readership perhaps and that's the hope for 
the future of theosophy.

Regarding the homophobia and the TS if it is as bad as has been 
suggested then its something that needs to be addressed actively and 
I don't think the younger generation will put up with that sort of 
narrowness and nastiness.
(I hope not anyway) 
It seems to be the case with religious approaches that they can't 
handle sexual issues very well, same with the whole Victorian mindset 
that the TS seems to be hung over with in some areas.
Maybe the best way for people to deal with issues of sexuality( if 
there's a problem) is through counseling and like all things try to 
be balanced, as a sexual nature is something we all have `gay' 
or `straight' like many of the things we find uncomfortable there 
normally good levelers bringing us all of our pedestal and back down 
to earth. 
How arrogant to judge people wholly in terms of their sexuality! 
The ES is wholly different entity and probably will slowly peter out 
due to lack of members joining.imo

Perry


--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "kpauljohnson" <kpauljohnson@y...> 
wrote:
> Dear Perry,
> 
> Here is some good news and some bad news related to two points you 
raise:
> 
> > people generally don't read HPB as she's considered too 
difficult.
> > CWL and AB's books are big sellers and popular for all the 
reasons 
> > already discussed.
> > 
> Actually one thing that should encourage HPB admirers is that her 
book
> sales are very healthy, the SD in particular, in the general 
market. 
> Have heard that CWL outsells HPB in Adyar/Wheaton publications, but
> that doesn't take into account the far better-selling TUP titles by
> HPB. At amazon.com, there are 1029 entries under Theosophy as a
> subject. The TUP SD ranks #2 in sales, #25198 out of all titles 
sold
> by amazon. The highest of AB or CWL titles is their joint 
production
> Thought Forms, #9 among Theosophical books and #87502 of all 
titles. 
> (BTW #1 is James Hillman's The Soul's Code, a Jungian book.)
> 
> snip
> 
> > As regards issues like sexuality the first object could also 
include 
> > something like `without distinction of race, caste, creed, sex, 
or 
> > sexual preference' our gay community should feel welcome in the 
> > society without any discrimination if its anything other than 
that 
> > it's being separative.
> > I can't say I met many homophobes in my time with the society but 
> > that's just my experience.
> 
> The homophobia is an open secret in the Adyar TS, in that the 
Esoteric
> Section refuses to admit active gay/lesbians as members while 
allowing
> monogamous unmarried heterosexual couples. In the non-Adyar 
elements
> of the movement, the equation of homosexuality with pedophilia (due 
to
> CWL mostly I guess) is well established and creates a homophobic
> atmosphere. Steve S. has mentioned to me that on another list a gay
> ULT member was subjected to personal abuse from other ULT members,
> making insinuations of black magic etc. Perhaps he can expand on 
that.
> 
> Paul 
> 
> > Perry
> > 
> > 
> > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Katinka Hesselink" 
<mail@k...> 
> > wrote:
> > > Hi,
> > > 
> > > In theory (in the mandate) everything is fine. It's in the 
execution
> > > of that mandate that the trouble comes in. I do know personally 
how
> > > difficult it is to balance trying for a certain atmosphere (in 
an
> > > e-maillist for instance) and holding on to an open forum. If in 
the
> > > Australian section an anti-blavatskyan attitude prevails it 
isn't 
> > to 
> > > be aplauded that they publish articles critical of her - they 
are 
> > just
> > > catering to their own prejudices then. What would be great 
would be 
> > if
> > > critical articles about any writer were published. But the 
opposite
> > > happens in the Adyar and wheaton publications - nothing 
critical is
> > > published. This is at least impartial in that it treats 
everybody
> > > equally. 
> > > 
> > > Unfortunately, as Paul said, the disease of lack of criticism 
isn't
> > > limited to the TS-Adyar, it is universal to the Theosophical 
> > Movement
> > > (defined for the moment as organisations that call themselves
> > > theosophical). In fact it is quite common for religious 
> > organisations
> > > to lack criticism of their own. Always easier to keep the sheep
> > > ignorant... in order to 'not disturb them' or something. 
> > > 
> > > In all kinds of ways risk is avoided. When is the last time a
> > > theosophical magazine discussed sex, for instance, or 
homosexuality,
> > > or the crimes of the Church, or the troubles in translations of 
the
> > > Bible/the Quran/the Upanishads whatever? Many interesting 
subjects 
> > are
> > > ignored out of the simple wish not to rock the boat. 
> > > 
> > > Katinka
> > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Perry Coles" 
<perrycoles@y...> 
> > wrote:
> > > > It's a great concern to me that a policy of "ignorance is 
bliss" 
> > > > or "ignore it and it will all go away" seeming to be a part 
of a 
> > the 
> > > > society's way of dealing with the CWL/NeoTheosophy issues.
> > > > A state of co-dependence has developed in the society imho 
and 
> > lack 
> > > > of support for the freedom of speech of those who point out 
the 
> > > > difference between the CWL and HPB/Mahatma's this is outrages 
> > beyond 
> > > > belief.
> > > > (Unless I am mistaken and can be given some positive 
assurance 
> > that 
> > > > this is not the case)
> > > > Does freedom of thought and freedom to compare different 
> > traditions 
> > > > in the societies publications exist in the Societies mandate? 
> > > > The hypocrisy of this state of "organizational culture" 
should be 
> > > > unacceptable for any theosophical student no matter how you 
feel 
> > > > about CWL.
> > > > I hope one day the society can not be so tied to a dogma and 
guru 
> > > > worship that it will be able to become that which it was 
meant to 
> > be 
> > > > with open Socratic dialogue in all its publications.
> > > > The irony is that the Theosophy in Australia magazine has 
just 
> > > > published an article that criticizes the Secret Doctrine 
quite 
> > > > strongly and to that I say GREAT!!! that's the true 
theosophical 
> > > > spirit.
> > > > But why oh why not CWL ??? 
> > > > Perry