Theos-Talk Archives (July 2004 Message tt00420)

Hi Anand,

Can you give the source of the statement that HPB said that about
Subba Row? As said, I haven't found it in the Subba Row COllected
Writings and without source material I'll trust Henk Spierenburg's
scholarship more than yours any day (no offence meant).

As to the other stuff you write: I've seen enough of Leadbeater. His
book The Chakra's is a theosophical classic that can't be ignored. But
from what I've read of his other work - I never get far - he bores me
to death. I agree though that there is more to theosophy than HPB.
Still my intuition supports HPB more than Leadbeater.

Your response ignores my main points though...

Katinka
--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Anand Gholap" <AnandGholap@A...>
wrote:
> Hi Katinka,
> (1)About Subba Rao HPB said she believed in his wisdom much more
than her.
> (2)Secrete Doctrine does have importance and HPB and Masters were
involved in it's writing. But main problem is some people consider
there is no Theosophy outside HPB's writing when in fact it was meant
to be beginning of Theosophy. And as humanity progresses, digests what
is given, it will be given more and more knowledge of secrete science
and that would offcourse come from other occultists like AB, CWL, CJ,
Hodson and in future through other occultists.
> (3) I would suggest you read many books of CWL and judge every
sentence on it's own merit whether it appeals your reason and
intuition and overall scheme of things. I have read and I found his
writing is most accurate. Don't judge his writing with prejudiced
mind, thinking somebody said bad about CWL.
> (4) Boys asked him what to do about continuous sexual thoughts in
their minds. Leadbeater replied masturbation would relieve from those
thoughts for some time. Any doctor will tell you he is right. From
that statement many stories were created by others about CWL.
> (5) Theosophy is all about Atma and God. Krishnamurthi said "Atma is
invention of mind born out of fear" So when you try to understand why
Krishnmurthi made any statement, reader will need much greater capacity. 
> (6) There are many disciples who are not in inner group and ES.
Still HPB and Annie Besant (who was incharge of ES) always considered
him extraordinary occultist and disciple. 
> 
> Best Regards.
> Anand Gholap
> 
> Hi Anand,
> 
> My memory tells me that Blavatsky called Subba Row her equal in
> occultism, but this is absent from the historical survey in the Subba
> Row Collected writings (compiled by Henk Spierenburg), so I'm probably
> mistaken.
> 
> The indications that the Secret Doctrine is to be taken seriously are
> quite numerous, in the Mahatma Letters for instance it is said that it
> will be (and therefore is) the production of M, KH and HPB together.
> The amount of times that HPB warns against clairvoyants is also quite
> numerous. What is especially noted it the difference in the
> description of after death states where HPB warns against what
> ordinary clairvoyants see... And that description fits precisely with
> what Leadbeater sees.
> 
> Olcott was hardly guided by the Mahatmas. By all acounts the Mahatmas
> only guided when the person involved had used all their own strength,
> intelligence and perseverance. Only in exceptional cases was guiding
> involved at all (this goes for HPB too, I think - outside her writing
> obviously). As for Leadbeater - I think the evidence is that the
> influence of the Mahatmas waned during his lifetime. For instance in
> the response of Krishnamurti to Leadbeater (in Sydney) one can see (or
> suspect) that at that time true spirituality was no longer to be
> learnt from him. Besant on the other hand seems to me to have trusted
> too much in her associates and in the end lost her marbles,
> unfortunately. She had a lot of practical wisdom to impart before that
> happened though.
> 
> Besant was not in charge of the ES before HPB's death. Besant and
> Judge were in charge together after her death. Still, every one can
> make mistakes. To suggest they couldn't, simply because at one time or
> another they were in touch with masters, is to deny free will (and the
> Mahatma Letters). Chelaship brings out all kinds of things in people -
> and occultism brings temptations and karma to a person in greater
> amounts than anything else. This effect is called pledge fever. It
> does make what happened in Sydney with those small boys more
> understandable. For an explanation of pledge fever:
> http://www.katinkahesselink.net/pledge.htm
> 
> From what we know we can see that
> 
> * HPB was a chosen vessal for the Mahatmas, no one else could bring
> the messages they wanted to bring like she could. She was
> irreplacable. She was an upasika, a female chela.
> * Besant was a much respected student (who, when HPB's psychological
> influence was still great 'could hear the voice of the master even
> though she had hardly any intuition' (or something to that effect).
> * Leadbeater received only one Mahatma Letter and wasn't even in the
> ES, let alone in the Inner Group.
> 
> Katinka