Theos-Talk Archives (March 2004 Message tt00331)

--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, leonmaurer@a... wrote:
> There is no question of arbitrary "belief," but only a question of 
knowing -- 
> by both experience and logical semantics. The subtleties, however, 
are mind 
> boggling. Restraining, hindering, constraining, curbing, 
thwarting, etc., the 
> "wandering mind" (otherwise called "modifications of the thinking 
principle 
> by WQJ's transliteration of Patanjali) -- refers solely to the 
runaway, 
> uncontrolled lower mind that, by itself, engages in random thoughts 
that have no 
> relationship with the true reality. It does not refer to the 
controlled or 
> focussed mind that is meditating on something (or nothing) that is 
one or another 
> part or "essence" of the true reality. That process of meditation 
means 
> focussing one's awareness on one or another aspect of reality in a 
controlled and 
> concentrated manner -- while trying to observe and understand its 
essential 
> nature.

You appear to be contradicting yourself. I don't think you 
understand what meditation is yet. The "undertsnding" does not come 
from logical analysis. Even meditation with a "seed" requires 
stopping the modifications of the mind.

> Therefore, no meditative yoga that is of any value considers that 
the 
> individual ever has to stop thinking altogether

No comment on whether it had value, but some systems require stopping 
thinking altogether on the theory that enlightenment is experiencesd 
in the space between two thoughts.

> And, this applies especially to the Bodhisattva, who must maintain 
constant 
> control of all his faculties of both mind and will. This self 
control is the 
> meaning of "mindfulness" and "constant vigilance" spoken of by the 
Buddha (and 
> also, not denied by Patanjali).

Patanjali did not mention Mindfulness because he was a Hindu and this 
is specifically a Buddhist practice.

Mindfulness is about being in the body from moment to moment.

> So long as the thinker is awake, and 
> mindful, he cannot stop using the mind or thinking of something

Yes, he can.

> HPB said that the true Master never sleeps 
> and is always awake in the higher mind.

This is a phenomenon in which advanced meditators remain mentally 
awake while their bodies sleep.

Therefore wakefulness and mindfulness 
> implies that the mind can never be empty of one thought or another

That is not true. In the space vetweenb two thoughts everyone''s 
mind is empty of thought.

I think the reason we are having trouble communicating is that 
meditation is an experience, and not something that can be analyzed 
and understood correctly without actually experiencing it. It is 
evidently impossible to understand Patanjali without working with 
what he says.