Theos-Talk Archives (December 2003 Message tt00098)

Hallo Leon and all of you,

My views are gi´ven in the below using ***.


from
M. Sufilight with peace and love...


----- Original Message ----- 
From: <leonmaurer@aol.com>
To: <theos-talk@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2003 12:22 PM
Subject: Re: Theos-World RE:: Physical Phenomena at a Seance (3 of 3)


> Hi Sufi,
>
> Well, I have to agree that almost everything you say makes some sort of
> sense. But maybe you have some of the facts wrong, and still haven't
gotten what I
> was talking about.
>
> So, to set the record straight, why not tell us exactly where HPB said, in
so
> many words, that a "new teaching or new teacher would come around 1975"?
I
> had the impression that she was talking about a new "message" of further
action
> with respect to the Theosophical Movement, rather than a new teaching of
> theosophy.
***
Yes. But is a "new message" not the same as a "new teaching" ?
Who should deliver that message ?
***

>
> From my recollection, she taught that the Founding Fathers of America,
back
> in the previous cycle of the Theosophical Movement, were "agents of the
adepts"
> (as she and WQJ also were). Could you tell us who, at that time, was
their
> "messenger" and what was their "new teaching"? If you can do that, I
would
> also like to know what that phase of the Movement had to do with the
ancient
> mystery teachings themselves -- other than its being based on them (as
still
> "secrets" of only the Founders and their Masters, all of whom were
Masons)?
***
a) Why is this important to were we are now and to the years past 1975 ?
It is the Master - the Guardians of Knowledge and Understanding who pulls
the strings
on evolution together with - the original Brahman.
We are indeed one of the herds, which Jesus Christ mentioned. Well only one
of them of course.

b) Quoteing --- The Secret Doctrine vol1. page xxxviii INTRODUCTORY.:
"...The same may be said of the whole Esoteric system. One turn of the key,
and no more, was given in "Isis." Much more is explained in these volumes.
In those days the writer hardly knew the language in which the work was
written, and the disclosure of many things, freely spoken about now, was
forbidden. In Century the Twentieth some disciple more informed, and far
better fitted, may be sent by the Masters of Wisdom to give final and
irrefutable proofs that there exists a Science called Gupta-Vidya; and that,
like the once-mysterious sources of the Nile, the source of all religions
and philosophies now known to the world has been for many ages forgotten and
lost to men, but is at last found..."
http://www.theosociety.org/pasadena/sd/sd1-0-in.htm (or try ULT's online
edition).

Who has since 1975 taught Gupta-Vidya on a high and compassionate level ?

Further reading from Daniel Caldwells (interesting website)
(http://www.blavatskyarchives.com/latermessengers.htm#five - Part
5 -).......:

c) The true esoterical agents of the "Masons" are not understood by many
today.
True esoterical Masons are not just strange - males - waring robes and
making sporious rituals of a eccentric kind.
The real Masons are - the spiritual "Builders" also called "Designers". They
make - designs before the human minds.
These designs of spiritual kind - has an impact upon humanity. Some of the
great buildings created through
the history of evolution still has an impact upon humanity. Today - designed
commercials and products (physical endowments) are made. Some
of them actually has a spiritual impact on a whole population. Nations flags
also still has an importance - because they are
acting symbols of indentity. A constitution is also a design. Such a one has
to do with the spiritual political activities.
The agents behind the USA constitution was creating a design, which should
lay the foundation (acting
as a kind of guideline) for the present society, (but also to make it
possible to change it when needed), which we all are withnessing today. But,
this constitution has changed during
the decades and centruies. And with good reason in most cases. --- The
Messenger is often of both a physical kind and of
a non-physical kind. The true and actual Physical messenger(s) or the ones
behind them on the scene should not be wasted time on.
The Physical messenger was as John Paine says not important. The "new"
teaching was - basically the creation of "political democracy" and the
abolishment
of the 100% rule by a - non-religious - earthly King of a certain
physical-oriented bloodline. This teaching was adapted to time, place and
people as far as possible.
There was a need - when we ´view the matter spiritually. Now something
almost called - the same Need - are so to speak are being forced upon
certain parts of the Middle East - by the use of raw violence or cultural
forcing by imperialistic trade. This place, the physical planet is ugly and
we have to live with it.

It all has to do with the spiritual science of organisation and evolution.
On a higher level other activities went on. And there are a certain kind of
analogical relation to these and the physical ones.
But analogical relations has their limitations as we all know. (Even the
Bailey books agree on that even if many of its readers forgets or ignores
this statement.)

>
> In HPB's time those "Secrets" (but not all of them) were exposed to the
world
> at large... So that, according to the plan, everyone who had "a need to
know"
> (and many who shouldn't have:-) could easily find out about what was
formerly
> only available to a select few. But, that exposure or change of direction
of
> the Movement could only take place if the previous cycle was successfully
> completed.
>
> Therefore, wasn't this "exposure" done solely for the purpose of
empowering
> the coming "action phase" of the Theosophical Movement -- rather than for
the
> enlightenment of individual theosophists? ... Although, that could be
> considered as a compassionate side effect for those who might be useless
to the
> Movement -- which was, actually, the primary motivation for the release of
the Secret
> Doctrine... That, incidentally (as another side effect) led to the A-bomb
as
> well as to A. Hitler and his followers, along with A Bailey and hers -- 
all of
> whom have taken advantage of HPB's teachings as well as her prophesy of a
new
> message and "messenger" to promote their New World Order,
anti-theosophical,
> racial and religious prejudicial, political, governmental and mystical
> messianic baloney. But then, even the Masters have to take the bad with
the good.
> And, as Shakespeare might say, "To do or not to do? That (was) the
question."
> So, they, like all of us other makers and receivers of karma and its
effects,
> had to choose between the "lesser of two evils," so to speak.
***
Any exposure has more often than not more than one effect or impact attached
or related to it.

***
>
> So, you are right... There is a necessity to give up the ways of the last
> cycle that HPB completed, and start this new cycle on a new footing. Now,
the
> Secret Doctrine must become what it was originally designed to be... Not a
> "bible" of theosophy as a religion, but as a "textbook" and "handbook" of
how to
> practically merge science, religion and philosophy -- in order to create a
> properly working, benificently self governed, and harmoniously progressing
world -- 
> that would speed up and facilitate the continuing evolution of all
humanity
> in perfect balance with all the other "lives" on Earth. That, to me, is
the
> only theosophical goal worth thinking about and working toward. And, of
course,
> has nothing to do with the ancient and fundamental wisdom teachings
> themselves -- which can never be changed or added to -- but simply studied
and used as
> a basis for such action.
***
A textbook among many - agreed.
***
>
> The Masters, through HPB, gave out all that was necessary to carry out
this
> new phase of the movement -- that had to come after their initial
"Teaching"
> phase -- as the action (or perhaps we should say, "practical") phase, that
began
> in 1775, had to come before that. So, there are no further new or "higher
> teachings" to come with respect to esoteric theosophy -- except, perhaps,
some
> new "instructions" about how to carry out the action phase of this third
and
> final cycle of the Movement. All the rest of those so called "higher
teachings"
> that lead to the final 3 initiations, have to come to us directly through
our
> inner teacher -- since they can only be taken, not given.
***
It will all happen in due time.
Let us all work on it.

***
>
> In my view, however, those action instructions will not be given out
openly
> -- since the Masters are still occultists, and know the necessity of not
> telling your left hand what your right hand is doing. (But, if anyone
wants to know
> what they are -- show us sufficient outward and inward proof that you are
a
> true theosophist and have achieved self realization, along with a burning
> desire to help and teach others, and I'm certain the Master will get in
touch with
> you one way or another.)
***
Yes. And no. Some of the secrets are already available, but the ignorant
students
are as always not understanding their importance.

***
>
> Unfortunately, some, like the Bailey, Prophet and Creme groups think they
> already have the message and are busy a beavers trying to see who will be
the
> first ones to take control of the world through their particular Messiah.
***
Yes. But they create - attention - and attracts certain newcomers.
Some of them will mature others will be lost in the --- emotional maze --- 
created by the same teachers.
***
> If we examines the history of the Theosophical Movement since it first
began
> about 600 years ago, it's quite obvious that each of its 200 year full
cycles
> alternated between an initial (half cycle) 100 year teaching/absorbtion
phase,
> followed by a 100 year practical action/establishment phase... With each
such
> overall cycle initiating a virtual or actual "New Order of the Ages."
It's
> obvious that the sole purpose of publicly giving out these teachings
around
> 1875 was to fulfill the aims, goals and purposes of the Theosophical
Movement by
> its third full cycle (or after six 100 year half cycles) ending about
2075.
> That means we haven't very long before such new action must surface and
become
> visible to all -- or become drowned in the backwash of material karmic
effects
> that we were not sufficiently awakened and mentally focussed enough, as a
> commonly motivated group, to overcome.
***
I won't be nervous about the future and what will happen.´
We should of course deal with the situation.
We can only do our best.

***
>
> So, it seems that we have been talking at cross purposes... You are still
> focussing on the spiritual teachings for the attainment of individual
knowledge,
> compassion, and self realization.
***
I am talking about and focussing on many issues - and not only that one.
My emails and designs are created - so that we may evolve by them - and so
UNITY
could be created.
***
While, I am assuming (as I'm sure HPB hoped)
> that all those necessities leading to the "formation" of each true
> theosophist into a "nucleus of Universal Brotherhood" should have already
been
> accomplished by 1975... And, that the next stage was to be the practical
application of
> theosophy by them, as "leaders" and "companions" who would inspire and
> empower the ordinary people, to become, in fact, a "Universal
Brotherhood." This
> group, acting in concert with a common end and purpose in view, would then
begin
> restoring the world, that their previous ignorance and acquiescence had
led
> to the brink of catastrophic self destruction. For, as HPB pointed out,
if we
> don't accomplish that change of mind of the common people and begin
working on
> our mutually dependent biospheric restoration before the door finally
closes
> at the end of the third cycle of the Movement -- our human evolution might
> very well be set back another million years or more.
***
That won't happen.
A few might loose their minds. That is all.
This is my view.
***
> So, it's the problems of the planet and the whole human race that we now
have
> to solve, not those of individual students searching for their own
salvation
> -- which doesn't need any "new teachings" to accomplish.
>
> So, what does any "new teaching of theosophy" have to do with those big
> problems, or the actions needed to solve them? Individually, we either
have gotten
> the 5th, 6th and 7th initiation teachings through out own inner Master, or
we
> haven't. And, no matter whether we have or not attained them, we can,
with
> what we already know, either help fulfill the purposes of the Theosophical
> Movement (which shouldn't be confused with the theosophical teachings) or
we
> can't.
***
Theosophy (or any true wisdom teaching using any proper name) will have to
relate theosophical wisdom to the governing of the United Nations
activities - in a proper manner a on mulitcultural level of a clear
compassionate kind.
This is getting more and more important in our information soicety.
Therefore any new - theosophical teaching will have to relate to for
instance the Bailey teachings in a manner
suited to such an agenda.

What made theosophy popular in its early days was a skilled understanding of
spiritual needs and a wise promotion of the theosophical thought-patterns.

The focus should be on the teaching and not on the persons. And this is the
problem today. It is the opposite because of certain journalists and others
activities.
Such a teaching could steer - the wisdom tradition into the future in a
solid manner on the more physical public level.
To mention that the teaching is taken from this or that teacher is maybe
that not relevant at all. The teaching is what is relevant.

***
>
> However, I'm sure there are many "theosophists" (most, with little time to
> spend in these forums) who have taken up this challenge and are working in
those
> directions, regardless of their level of theosophical initiation. All
such
> efforts need is willing workers who have the same ends and purposes in
view.
> Therefore, it might behoove some of us who wish to join in this action, to
seek
> them out and offer whatever help they can.
>
> Unfortunately, some of the larger groups of pseudo theosophists, who have
> also taken up this challenge, think they have to use mystical brainwashing
> techniques and possibly even force, to control or remove those who might
not conform
> to their ideas of the New World Order.
>
> So, judging by all the nonsense I hear about the coming of a literal
> messenger with a new interpretation or application of the theosophical
teachings, I
> can say that some of you still haven't gotten it yet.
***
No I haven't.
There will be created a new teaching. And new teachings have already been
created.
Wisdom is timeless - but has to be given a certain design - so that the
immature Seekers can learn.
***
>
> Incidentally, I didn't say that anyone personally (or you, particularly)
were
> "pseudo theosophists" or are doing the same things as them -- when I
included
> you together with those politicalizing and/or religionizing interpreters
of
> theosophy -- who also haven't gotten it. But, all I can say is, if the
shoe
> fits, wear it. :-) If not, show us that you understand the difference
between
> the "theosophical teachings" and the "Theosophical Movement," and tell us
why,
> with respect to the higher teachings, what's good for one may not be very
good
> for another? It also might be useful if we all can understand the serious
> harm the pseudo theosophists, and other New Age channelers are doing to
> misdirect the Movement by playing into the hands of the present white
Christian
> minority of wealthy industrialists now taking control of the world's
"globalization"
> through the UN.
***
Theosophical teachings is not the same as the Theosophical Movement.
That is logical and needs no proof.
First --- there is no real Theosophical Movement. There are many branches.
And true theosophy are neither practised within any movement - that is to
narrow a view.
Theosophical teaching is both physical and non-physical.
This message is physical in nature.

The last sentence we can agree upon.
But - it is importan to understand, that in the long run of incarnations
we will all learn.
A strategic position could be to - promote our own teachings
in a spiritual manner using our wisdom and not the ugly head under the arm.
(smile...)

***
> From this point of view (looking at theosophy as simply a tool to fulfill
the
> objects of the Theosophical Movement) -- what might be called for today to
> fulfill its aims and purposes is a literal "Revolution" (non violent, of
course)
> that might have to overthrow or reform this entire "New Order of the
Ages,"
> and turn it back toward its original purpose of creating a balanced system
> where each individual could have complete liberty or self rule, a true
diversity
> within a unity -- while living under a theosophically minded government
"of the
> people, by the people, and for the people" (as A. Lincoln framed it).
But,
> this time around, it's not one country alone that needs this change, but
the
> entire world.
***
If this would happen in UN - then it could happen in a country or two.
And a beginning would have been made.
What is going on at UN ?
Who are these refomrers of UN - Maurice Strong and his friends up to ?
That is what I ask.
***
>
> We might see, then, that any new leader(s) who can impersonally bring all
the
> diverse efforts toward world salvation together, will have to be of the
same
> nature as the Buddha, and appear as nothing in the eyes of men... But
also,
> with a full knowledge of the mass media (both scientifically and
technically) as
> well as full access through it directly to the eyes, ears and hearts of
the
> entire world's population. In addition, he/she/they should be entirely
> independent, and not in any way the stooges of the economic power
structure that is
> now trying to rule the world. That's the kind of active and rallying new
> "messenger(s)" we should be looking for (or cultivating in theosophy).
He/She/They
> could certainly use any help they can get. But, I doubt if there ever
will
> be any such singular, non political "leader" -- unless one comes along who
is
> not only a wise theosophist, but also, perhaps, makes (or can take credit
for)
> a final new breakthrough in science leading to a repeatable experiment
that
> proves beyond a shadow of a doubt the validity of the theosophical
metaphysics
> and its fundamental laws of karma and reincarnation ... Thereby, giving
such
> ideas, along with the fundamental principles they are based on, a clear
reason
> for worldwide acceptance.
***
Some dream that Sai Baba will show himself and his wisdom and powers at a UN
meeting.
But right now - it doesn't look like this will be the solution to look for.

Maybe a group of - yet unknown - persons will come forward instead ?

***
>
> Of course, if we can't be graced by such an accomplished teacher, and pull
> off such a "reformation" before the globe becomes so populous and so self
> destructive that the Earth will begin to wobble on it axis -- maybe the
next
> messenger we see will be the Maha Chohan himself with his giant scythe
that will cut
> us all down to a few jungle dwellers -- having to start from the beginning
all
> over again.
>
> So, do we agree that it is important for us to understand this modern age
> with its mass media and high technology -- that could enable the entire
world, at
> its grass roots, to be brought together with a common theosophical purpose
by
> such a leader or group of leaders? And, do we also agree that it's
important
> for true theosophists to become involved in such action so as to prevent
it
> turning into just another "New World Order" global dictatorship -- that
might
> allow the world to be destroyed, or would sacrifice the lives and
individual
> freedoms of all dissenters, before giving up their powers and greeds?
***
Agreed.

***
> But, we must still remember that there cannot be any "new theosophical
> teaching" -- since its metaphysics (and at least its synthesis with
science and
> philosophy) is already being gradually cut in stone by the leading edges
of modern
> Superstring/M-brane physics, coupled with holographic and other advanced
> coenergetic field theories... And everything else, necessary for any of
us to
> achieve individual salvation, has already been given out and correlated
for us by
> the Masters. All the rest of the so called "higher teachings" can only
come
> through our own Master within -- based on our "individual, self devised
and
> self determined efforts" of study and practice -- even if we can't find a
live
> teacher who can guide us along the way. Fortunately, there are many of us
who
> have been enlightened in a previous lifetime, or in this one, that can
help
> those others who are still struggling on the path. It's still a fact
that, If
> you don't ask, you can't receive. (So, maybe all this gratuitous wisdom
given
> out in these forums is just a lot of whistling in the wind. :-)
>
> So, don't you agree that the above description of the differences and
> separation between the "study of theosophy" and the "Theosophical
Movement" -- while
> considering their essential unity and interdependence -- is "presenting
the
> teaching in a new light" that satisfies the needs of our time?
***
Not entirely.

Many will have to agree to such a presentation. It will have to be more
visionary and directed
a the core of the problems we have - now.
***
>
> It seems that if all students of theosophy would understand that -- then
> "compassion," as you speak of it, would automatically become the ruling
aspect of
> their lives as a matter of principle. And, they would know how to apply
it
> without having it turn it into vapid or vacuous sentimentality, or give
them a
> rationale, depending on their preconceptions of their own self worth, to
> arbitrarily sacrifice the few for the sake of the many, or the many for
the sake of
> the few... (That seems to be the case among some today following the "New
> World Order" ideas of the New Age Gurus.)
***
Try reading the books of Idries Shah - substituting the word "sufi" with
"theosophy".
He says just about the same thing.
--- Idries Shah's books could very well be added to the main theosophical
books ---
--- His books extends theosophical teachings and uses some of the 7 keys ---
***
>
> I hope you've finally gotten it. If so, we welcome all your comments and
> further teachings that can help fulfill the true purpose of theosophy -- 
by
> becoming the motivational force behind the successful conclusion of the
> Theosophical Movement in accord with its original (yet still open and
loose to account
> for unforeseen contingencies) Master plan.
***
We shall now each other on the fruits we create.


***
> Incidentally, one of those contingencies was the premature exposure of the
> Bailey/DK teachings, possibly based on the Bailey's hunger for power and
> recognition, or their misdirected eagerness to overshadow HPB -- which,
> unfortunately, has generated an exceedingly powerful backlash against all
the fundamental
> theosophical teachings in general... Making the TM's "leaders" and
"companions"
> jobs all the more difficult. :(

***
No, not quite. The Bailey books are a design - which has had a certain
impact on a certain audience.
They are not that bad - only if they are used alone without the
understanding of Atma-Vidya and Blavatsky's teachings.
But they constitute a danger - certianly.
Within a few decades if all carries well - these Bailey books will loose -
followers. Their content will be viewed in a more true light.
The focus will shift - towards a more global thinking-pattern, than these
books are capeable of giving the
eager aspirants. The Internet are helping the wisdom tradition more than we
could have dared to hope. And even this has its limitations.
These books by Bailey although they are many do not explain all spiritual
sciences on all areas. This is important to be aware of.
The Law of karma is for instance badly dealt with and hardly mentioned in a
comprehensive manner.
The science of evolution and spiritual organisations modes of operating are
not dealt with in an acceptable manner.
The spiritual science on cultures their development and alterations are
neither dealt with in a comprehensive manner - and a visionary manner
related to year 2003.
And there are more issues.


from
M. Sufilight with peace and love...
***


> Best wishes,
>
> Leonardo
>
>
>
> >
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>
>