Theos-Talk Archives (December 2003 Message tt00069)

Hallo Netemara and all of you,

My views are:

1.
You have stated your acceptance of the - cultural bias in the Alice A.
Bailey
books. This is what you accept: Alice A. Bailey's book "Esoteric Psychology"
vol1., page 167-8

And I have stated my CLEAR rejection of the same.

This is my view.
Is it also yours Netemara ?

Love can only be got through love.

2.
The quote from Alice A. Bailey's book "Esoteric Psychology" vol1., page
167-8 --- is NOT valid theosophical teaching.

Let us put some perspective into it all.
The books by Alice A. Bailey was written to a western audience and for
obvious reasons NOT to a Middle Eastern audience. They were written on the
physical level - at a certain time in the historical evolution of mankind on
a small planet called Earth. The Alice A. Bailey book in mention --- 
"Esoteric Psychology" vol1., page 167-8 --- was written around the year
1936. It also has a content, which are talking against the Jews (saying they
in a way too unclear manner, that they are a "karmic group"). - Only 3 years
before that, Hitler was named Reich Chancellor of Germany. His racism-like
politics was already leaning on Christianity, which he and his friends later
rejected. And remember - that the atmosphere of racism was growing in EU and
even in USA near 1933-36. Later the Bailey books had to because of these
earlier writings - in a clear manner - condemn Hitler because of the
different WWII events. - The chronology of the creation of the books at
least gives one good reason to adopt this impression. And because of this -
the books has a dangerously aggression-like content and great possibilities
of being misunderstood.
One example is the view, that it was the Shamballa force (Sanat Kumara)
which was active when Hitler forced World War II. WWII happened becase the
energies on the Planet was lifted by the Shamballa force (Sanat Kumara) - so
it is said. (It is a time-attached view and a narrow formulation, that is
what I say.)

My view is:
If any of the in the quote mentioned religions should be named a "hybrid
offshoot" and NOT a root religion - it should be Christianity - which
together with the Jews never really has accepted the principle of the Avatar
! Though they have accepted the dogmatic principle of a Pope and tells us,
that this is the sign of a real (root) religion !

Blavatsky was in her writings - much - against the Christian Jesuitic
Sorcerer activities, which she called the most dangerous to the Society -
the TS.
One wonders why she did that ? Why do you think so Netemara ?
Do you also agree upon this view ?

And we have a Alice A. Bailey which dares to twist and turn all the
christian views around, which was written by Blavatsky. - And an Alice A.
Bailey who lets Christianity (although she at very few places calls it the
esoterical version of Christianity) have high position in her D.K. books -
and creates the Muslims as scapegoats - together with the Jews. If she just
had used the words "esoterical Christianity" instead of the misguiding
single word "Christianity" - it would have helped us all a lot - in these
days of the Internet - and intensive use of excerpts.
Historically related issue. Writing books taking time, place and people into
account. Blavatsky was writing at a different time in history - when racism
against the African countries was well accepted in the British and other
european parliments. Alice A. Bailey was writing at a time where racism was
high on the agenda with Hitler and all - and she chose (togehter with her
friend D.K.) to write the books in a manner, which related to the time,
place and people - and the audience they had in mind at that time.
Since Alice A. Bailey died (1949) and since WWII ended 1946 - we have seen a
growing understanding of the importance among the planets inhabitants of
rejecting the different kinds of racisms on this Planet. But the present
western massmedias and the politicians has still a need to create a
scapegoat - and who should that be but the Muslims - because they don't fit
in with certain so-called esoterical books - one af the groups of books
being the Alice A. Bailey ones.
(Not to mention, that Blavatsky didn't really touch upon this culture).

The teachings has to be adapted to time, place and people - else they will
not attract interested readers - and students ! Do you not agree ?


The quote from the above book "Esoteric Psychology" vol1., page 167-8 is
quite clear in its cultural bias. And the Alice A. Bailey books heavy use of
christian-like vocabulary doesn't make it go away.
The past few Internet years and the time since 2001 9/11 - has made these
books stand out as clearly insufficient.
These books aught to be related to quality teachings from the Middle East -
and not only westernized books of different culturally biased kinds.
And if any of you now start telling me, that no writers in the Middle East
has written anything on a level that matches the books by Alice A. Bailey
I think you aught to rethink your own cultural attachments on how books are
written in different cultures.

Try this link on "Characteristics of Theosophical litterature"
which I emailed some days back.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theos-talk/message/12917
It is difficult to understand the writings of the sufis Rumi and Ghazali if
you are from a western country and background.
--- So ignorance is part of the picture together with a cultural gap of
tremendous proportions. ---


What I am telling you Netemara is, that we today - according to YOU- are
witnessing a cultural clash between the so-called "hybrid-offshoots" - also
called The Muslims and on the other side the westernized Christianity
(called a GREAT root religion). This happens according to you (???) with the
silent acceptance of the United Nations. (An organisation which in fact -
according to you Netemara - are under heavy influence by The Lucis Trust and
its various Bailey-related branches).
A United Nations, which since 1945/1948 has dared - in the name of peace -
to deny - ANY Middle Eastern country to have a PERMANENT seat in the United
Nations Security Counsil (--- The mini world Government ! ---). A United
Nations which has as its highest founded duty - to seek the creation of
peace on this Planet. --- How fake can one be ?

3.
Political issues related to certain Bailey groups:
Keep the scapegoat (Muslims) out of the game and your writings --- and then
you have it:
"The slaves fighting among themselves" like Pharao did in the old days of
Atlantic nature.
Martin Luther King Jr. knew what he said. And he didn't reject any culture
except the political aggressions coming from certain circles in USA !

If King had live today - he would problably have compared Vietnam with Iraq.
What about China and Tibet ?
No wonder, that the Muslims feel like the underdogs these days.
And is this done with the blessings of the Alice A. Bailey books calling it
all the "Shamballa force in action" ?
Let us get more real than that.

Who said that the - elite Ubermensch had disappeared from the Planet ?
It lives in New York (Nato !) and Washington.
Saying that Hitler was bad - and then creating a new cultural scapegoat -
won't work.
The Jesuitic Sorcerers are still alive.
The new thing is, that they - misuse - the theosophical teachings.
Some Bailey groups don't do that - but others do !

When do the Lucis Trust make a compilation on the Middle Eastern teachings ?
Will it happen when they have made their "hybrid offshoot" disappear from
the surface of the Planet ?


4.
Grow if you must. But don't expect, that you will not meet an opposition,
which will make your cultural biased promotions spin upwards.
God help us all.

All that said - please do not misunderstand me Netemara.
I am only in opposition to the Bailey books on the issues, where they can be
said to be
misleading spritually or said to be against theosophical teachings as we all
understand them.
I think the Bailey books has at least something to offer the earnest and
somewhat educated students.
I do like the book A Treatise on Cosmic Fire and its words on the birth of a
child --- beautiful writing --- 
in fact on the level of the Muslims Quran's similar describtions


I prefer to open the Heart centre before I open the Throat centre and NOT
the Throat centre at first as it is recommended by Alice A. Bailey.

And I know that one CAN interpret Alice A. Bailey different than I have
done.
But the problem is, that it is too easy to interpret Bailey's books as being
culturally biased.
Please rethink that.

All people are important whether they are Muslims, Christians, Buddhists,
Hinduists, Jews and so on...
No one should be left behind or trampled on.

Maybe my email isn't that good...
I have tried to cover many angles using only little space.

from
M. Sufilight with peace and love...




----- Original Message ----- 
From: "netemara888" <netemara888@yahoo.com>
To: <theos-talk@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2003 2:40 PM
Subject: Theos-World Re: It's not who in 1975, but what


--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Morten Nymann Olesen" <global-
theosophy@a...> wrote:
> Hallo Christina and all of you,
>
> My views are:
> This link http://www.serve.com/herrmann/bailey.htm (use a
small "b" in
> Bailey)
>
> Has as I see it the problem, that it concludes that the Muslims
will
> gladly follow these Bailey teachings - as if they have found a new
Bible.
> I think this is wrong.
> There are way to few Muslims in any Bailey group as far as I am
aware of.
> The reason is simply this:
> "We have heard that Brahmanism is the last great religion which
arose under
> first ray influence; we do not know what may have been the
religion which
> was the outcome of the last second ray period; but the Chaldean,
the
> Egyptian and the Zoroastrian religions may be taken as
representing the
> third, the fourth, and the fifth rays respectively. Christianity
and
> probably Buddhism were the result of sixth ray influence.
Mohammedanism,
> which numbers so large a following, is also under sixth ray
influence, but
> it is not a great root religion, being a hybrid offshoot of
Christianity
> with the tinge of Judaism."
> Esoteric Psychology vol1., page 167-8.

Morten,
Actually it is a growing group as we speak. There is one group,
which most people dismiss as being part of the Islamic world being
the black muslims and the black hebrews. Both started in Chicago,
Illinois. I can write a book on how vegetarianism began in Chicago
among middle-class African-Americans who also changed the way we all
dress now! They and many other minorities are reading the AAB books
on the bus while going to work, this is what you don't know. There
is a revolution out there against the status quo and people are
looking for the most revolutionary books they can find. Tupac (the
dead rapper) was introduced to the Bailey books by a Jewish woman
who became his mentor. He even named his posthumous album (soon to
be released) after the books it is called: "Resurrection."

This my friend is only a drop in the bucket. When their power being
of light or darkness satanic or the light of the Christ is felt it
will be part of the raising of the kundalini on a global level,
which is already being experienced. The music that is made is part
of this process. There are some psychic things coming which are
going to really shock some people. It is part of evolution, what
else? But the fundamentalist Christians are going to call all of it
part of the Anti-Christ. Can we blame someone (whom St. Paul says is
a spirit and not a person) for everything that goes wrong on earth?
Cooooomme on.....

Netemara


>
> --- The message basically read like this: No support for the hybrid
> offshoots ---
> --- And what happens to the Middle east these days ? ---
> --- What level of influence has the Great Invocation á la Bailey
kind ---
> --- upon the millions of "hybrid offshoots" in the Middle
East ??? ---
>
> I find these sentences by Alice A. Bailey highly problematic if
not just
> plainly bad.
>
> from
> M. Sufilight with peace and love...
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "christinaleestemaker" <christinaleestemaker@y...>
> To: <theos-talk@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2003 11:00 AM
> Subject: Theos-World Re: It's not who in 1975, but what
>
>
> > Hallo there,
> > Look at http://www.conspiracyarchive.com/NewAge/Alice-Bailey.htm
> > and
> > http://www.serve.com/herrmann/Bailey.htm
> >
> > and you see enough.
> > Bye Christina
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "netemara888"
<netemara888@y...>
> > wrote:
> > > DK takes great pains to describe that there will be
breakthroughs
> > > beginning in 1975 which will comprise the next generation of
> > > spiritual teachings. It will not happen in that year, but is a
long
> > > process which will begin in 1975. One thing which began is a
type
> > of
> > > psychic opening to greater spiritual channels. These channels
are
> > > the who. I don't mean channeling a master or that but spiritual
> > > channels which will be open on the inside of each aspirant who
is
> > > nearing the final-four lives.
> > >
> > > Yes, just as RS talks about the last four lives which will
come as
> > a
> > > culmination of long lives past spent in meditation so does DK.
So
> > > what we will be experiencing, reading about, seeking will be
that
> > > opening wider of the door between the Hierarchy and Humanity.
And
> > > where will it manifest? I believe that it will manifest in a
series
> > > of revelations (as AAB describes) but they will be about the
higher
> > > realms of meditation and its fruits. That is my take on the
subject.
> > >
> > > Namaste
> > >
> > > Netemara
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >




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