Theos-Talk Archives (November 2003 Message tt00099)

Nov 9 2003

Re: Eggs & fish

Dear friends:

THEOSOPHY makes no rules. Each individual makes his own choices and he
advances on the great Path in accordance with those. But he may
consider advice and see if it suits his own reasoning. As such this
could be considered;


Vegetarians adopt whatever diets they choose or know will suit their
personal bodily needs.

Eggs are usually unfertilized. Fish are living animals.

Why not ask about grains and nuts? They are living seeds and may be
fertile. By eating them we prevent their germination.

No matter what we do, there are some karmic links made, that is a rule.


What our attitude may be when we choose our foods, and what we choose to
eat is to me, of more significance than what I eat to sustain life in my
body.

Take some of the rules of the Buddhist Bhikkus: They cannot handle
money or by their food. They depend on the charity of others who feed
them -- or they starve. 

What does this teach: the cooperation and interdependence of humanity,
and offers the virtue of hospitality, charity and sharing with others.
It is also a reliance on Karma that we shall always be given what we
need. 

This assumed discipline offers the possibility of advance on an inner
Path, more difficult for the average person to understand than the
constant war to secure and to possess.

Here , after all his deep teaching is what the Buddha said:

----------------------------

But to his own, them of the yellow robe --
They who, as wakened eagles, soar with scorn
>From life's low vale, and wing towards the Sun –


To these he taught the Ten Observances
The Dasa-Sîl, and how a mendicant
Must know the Three Doors and the Triple Thoughts;
The Sixfold States of Mind; the Fivefold Powers;
The Eight High Gates of Purity; the Modes
Of Understanding; Iddhi; Upekshâ
The Five Great Meditations, which are food
Sweeter than Amrit for the holy soul;
The Jhâna's and the Three Chief Refuges.


Also he taught his own how they should dwell;
How live, free from the snares of love and wealth;
What eat and drink and carry -- three plain cloths, --
Yellow, of stitched stuff, worn with shoulder bare --
A girdle, almsbowl, strainer. 

Thus he laid
The great foundations of our Sangha well,
That noble Order of the Yellow Robe
Which to this day standeth to help the World.


So all that night he spake, teaching the Law:
And on no eyes fell sleep -- for they who heard
Rejoiced with tireless joy. Also the King,
When this was finished, rose upon his throne
And with bared feet bowed low before his Son
Kissing his hem; and said, "Take me, O Son! 
Lowest and least of all thy Company."
And sweet Yasôdhara, all happy now, --
Cried "Give to Rahula -- thou Blessed One!
The Treasure of the Kingdom of thy Word
For his inheritance." Thus passed these Three
Into the Path

* * * *


[From Sir Edwin Arnold THE LIGHT OF ASIA, Nook 8, pp 155-6]

--------------------------------------------

Best wishes,

Dallas

=====================================

-----Original Message-----
From: YAMTA Augustin [mailto:yamta13@yahoo.fr] 
Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2003 10:14 AM
To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: Theos-World making demands and relationships with others



YAMTA Augustin <yamta13@yahoo.fr> wrote:Hi,

Concerning vegetarianism, what about eating egg and fish ?

Thanks

Eldon B tucker 
wrote:
I'd say that life is imperfect and that in order to exist we have to
consume
resources and make demands on the world. That includes taking food,
drink,
and air. We can be modest in our demands and exist in a mostly kind and
cooperative relationship with life or we can fill our minds with a
dog-eat-dog mentality and be a predator to everyone and everything
around
us.

It's not necessary to draw a distinction between people based upon
whether
they incorporate a particular virtue into their outer lives -- like a
vegetarian diet -- or not. These external trappings will fix themselves
over
time. What's important is to recognize the spiritual fire in the other's
eyes. We cannot cause the initial spark, though; that's up to the
other's
inner nature, wholly self-initiated.

Looking at another, it's the inner light that's important. We can
respond to
that, even if it's but a spark. We don't need to tell someone to tie
their
shoelaces, brush their teeth, cut down on the hamburger diet, or read
good
books. We're not their Mother. The important communication is in terms
of a
sympathetic vibration, a resonance between their creative fire and ours.


Sometimes it may be useful to talk about the personal and social
benefits of
a vegetarian diet. Other times, it's not important. The same is true of
any
area of self-improvement or the cultivation of any particular virtue.
Preaching does little good. Living the life without trying to win
converts
does much better, teaching by example rather than by sermon. If the
subject
of vegetarianism comes up, for instance, it's a suitable topic; if it is
simply thrown into someone's face to put him or her down, then it
becomes a
form of bragging and name-calling.

Another question regards what friends we keep. The people we associate
have
an effect upon us. They can drag us down or uplift us. Some can act as
mentors and hasten our learning of difficult things. Others can act as
bad
influences, leading us into wasting our intelligence, energy, and the
scarcest resource of all: time.

We can hang out with troubled people with the idea that our influence
will
help them. This is a form of self-sacrifice. If we are intentionally
helping
them and they are trying to improve, it is good; if they are victimizing
themselves and us and have no intention of changing, it's not good.

We can also hang out with people that aren't troubled but are learning
from
us as a role model for something they'd like to know or be able to do.
Not
every helping relationship is a sick person dragging us down, unwilling
to
improve. Some are healthy, growing people that are taking initiative to
improve themselves and giving us something positive in return for our
assistance.

Little is learned by hanging around with people exactly like ourselves,
avoiding the outside world, and putting blinders on. It's possible that
theosophical students do this in their groups at times. But such is not
always the case. We don't need a student/teacher relationship all the
time.
A student/student relationship is helpful too. A group of theosophical
students, peers, sharing what they know, can progress, come to new
understandings, and make progress in both their learning and lives.

I agree that thoughts (and feelings) are more important that the
specifics
of what we may have eaten for lunch. Giving a vegetarian some
french-fries
with a trace of animal shortening (from the grease it was fried in) may
be
bad. Far worse is deliberately provoking someone into a burning, angry
outburst for the simple (and malicious) joy of watching them get mad.
The
excuse that one is playing the role of a spiritual teacher and training
the
other person is ridiculous, only convincing the person making it. On a
mailing list, we should always remember we're talking to real people and
treat them the same as we would if we were standing face-to-face.

-- Eldon





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