Theos-Talk Archives (October 2003 Message tt00313)

Hi Mauri,

My views are:

I note your views or speculations.
I stick to what I said.

The world is Maya - but the TRUTH is shown there.
First the TRUTH is viewed in a limited manner.
Then you will get absorbed in total by it.
The TRUTH is omnipresent.
What is TRUTH ?
TRUTH is GOD - ParaBrahman.

I do hope this helped.
Speculations on top of speculations - no facts only expressed uncertainty
via speculations - is it that good ?

I could suggest, that you absorbed The Bhagavad Gita and the Upanishads -
especially the last one.
There they don't speculate so much - because then their HEADS might burst.
Just to mention it, now that you have this itch with your head being
scratched and all.
A huge and very friendly smile morphs the Sufilight - face.
Therefore I suggest this:

Take this quote from the most high Sage - Yajnavalkya

---
"Chapter VI-Yajnavalkya and Gargi (I)
1

Then Gargi, the daughter of Vachaknu, questioned him.
"Yajnavalkya ," said she, "if all this is pervaded by water, by what, pray,
is water pervaded?"
"By air, O Gargi."
"By what, pray, is air pervaded?"
"By the sky, O Gargi."
"By what is the sky pervaded?"
"By the world of the gandharvas, O Gargi."
"By what is the world of the gandharvas pervaded?"
"By the world of the sun, O Gargi.
"By what is the world of the sun pervaded?"
"By the world of the moon, O Gargi."
"By what is the world of the moon pervaded?"
"By the world of the stars, O Gargi."
"By what is the world of the stars pervaded?"
"By the world of the gods, O Gargi."
"By what is the world of the gods pervaded?"
"By the world of Indra, O Gargi.
"By what is the world of Indra pervaded?"
"By the World of Virij, O Gargi.
"By what is the World of Virij pervaded?"
"By the World of Hiranyagarbha, O Gargi."
"By what, pray, is the World of Hiranyagarbha pervaded?"
"Do not, O Gargi," said he, "question too much, lest your head should fall
off. You are questioning too much about a deity about whom we should not ask
too much. Do not ask too much, O Gargi."
Thereupon Gargi, the daughter of Vachaknu, held her peace."
(Brihadaranyaka Upanishad, Part III, Chapter VI, v. 1-Yajnavalkya and Gargi
(I)

--- (In peace the Heart speaks. Compassion is silent.)




"23

""Yajnavalkya," said Sakalya, "what deity are you identified with in the
north?"
"With the deity Soma (the moon and the creeper of that name)."
"In what does Soma find its support?"
"The initiatory rite."
"In what does initiation find its support?"
"Truth. Therefore they say to the one who is initiated: 'Speak the truth';
for it is in the truth that
initiation finds its support."
"In what does the truth find its support?"
"The heart," said Yajnavalkya, "for through the heart one knows the truth;
therefore it is in the heart
that the truth finds its support."
"Just so, Yajnavalkya."

24

"What deity," said Sakalya, "are you identified with in the fixed direction
(i.e. overhead)?"
"With the deity fire."
"In what does fire find its support?"
"Speech."
"In what does speech find its support?"
"The heart."
"In what does the heart find its support?"

25

"You ghost," said Yajnavalkya, "that you think that the heart should be
elsewhere than in ourselves!
If it were elsewhere than in ourselves, dogs would eat this body or birds
tear it to pieces."

26

"In what do the body and the heart find their support?" asked Sakalya.
"In the prana."
"In what does the prana find its support?"
"In the apana."
"In what does the apana find its support?"
"In the vyana."
"In what does the vyana find its support?"
"In the udana."
"In what does the udana find its support?"
"In the samana."
Here the Upanishad itself states:
This self is That which has been described as "Not this, not this."
It is imperceptible, for It is never perceived; undecaying, for It never
decays; unattached, for It is
never attached; unfettered, for It never feels pain and never suffers
injury.
Yajnavalkya said: "These are the eight abodes, the eight organs of vision,
the eight deities and the
eight beings.
"Now I ask you about that Person who is to be known only from the
Upanishads, who definitely
projects those beings and again withdraws them into Himself and who is at
the same time
transcendental.
"If you cannot clearly explain Him to me, your head shall fall off?' Sakalya
did not know Him; his
head fell off; and robbers snatched away his bones, mistaking them for
something else."
(Brihadaranyaka Upanishad - Part III, Chapter IX, v. 23-26. -Yajnavalkya and
Vidaghdha)


There are very great things in the Brihadaranyaka Upanishad which perhaps
aught not to be read by impure minds. With these subtle longings, we should
not go to the Upanishads to seek, "let me see if I can find something
there." You should not experiment with these things. You should say, "I
shall find it." The Brihadaranyaka Upanishad is a spiritual supermarket -
you can find anything there. It is a forest, a large, large forest of
knowledge - Brihadaranyaka. It is aranyaka, a forest of knowledge. That
also, brhat very large, impregnable forest for every kind of knowledge. Very
vast: it will take one year to say anything about this book. Even one year
is not sufficient. You are touching the Self, that is the most important
thing. You can touch anything and go scot-free, but we cannot touch the Self
and go like that. It will do some mischief afterwards.

"Do not talk much about it," Yajnavalkya tells some of the
questioners in the assembly of Sage Janaka. "Do not talk much about it." And
one Shakalya went on arguing, "Where is its location, where is it located?
Where is the heart located? Yajnavalkya said "Hey, don't ask too much lest
your head may fall off." "Tell me the great Purusha that is declared in the
Upanishads. If you don't understand this, your head will fall just now." And
he did not know the Purusha in the Upanishads that well, and robbers took
the head away.

And of course we will have to read it all between the lines. If it is no
good it is no good. Facts are facts.
(Smile...)



W.A.T.C.H
Watch
Watch your Words
Watch your Actions
Watch your Toughts
Watch your Character
Watch your Heart


I do care.


from
M. Sufilight with peace and love...and a smile...



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mauri" <mhart@idirect.ca>
To: <theos-talk@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, October 24, 2003 10:06 PM
Subject: Theos-World re to Morten re "assuming,," "speculation," "facts "
and ...


> Morten wrote: <<But I don't assume. We talk
> about facts here.>>
>
> It's interesting, if from my speculative
> perspective, that you use the word "facts, "
> but don't offer much in the way of whatever
> you might tend to see as somewhat
> more-specific qualifiers as to the sense in
> which you're using that word, in that, after
> all, in the context of anything like the
> "Esoteric Tradition" (which might be seen to
> have some kind of relevance on a Theosophic
> discussion list, possibly ...), one might
> wonder about a few "apparently relevant
> qualifers," say, that might be seen to have
> some kind of relevance in whatever "factual"
> and/or "speculative sense" ... ^:-/ ...
>
> <<To speculate is ALSO to assume.>>
>
> So ... ^:-/ ...
>
> <<This is a fact - but of course not always a
> fact. If you disagree, then you are twisting
> the english language.>>
>
> As I see it, in as much as one acknowledges,
> by way of however defined "speculative,
> "assumptive," or "factual" basis, that one's
> thinking processes, in general, in terms of
> karmic, dependent arisings, are essentially
> mayavic, then, as I see it, in that sense,
> all "facts" are seen as "esentially
> relative," and, in that sense, are, in
> essence, tantamount to being "essentially
> speculative," in that they are, (per their
> karmic promptings, in keeping with their
> dependent arisings), the
> individualistic/collective "interpretive,"
> modelistic, mediumistic coping mechanisms
> that, in turn (in terms of their mayavicity),
> are to be transcended if one is to experience
> enlightenment. That is, not that there not
> plenty of "useful models and information,"
> (that might be seen as "factual enough,"
> say), but/"but" ... Or is that kind of
> reasoning too "circular" for you, as Leon
> might put it?
>
> <<Yes. But maybe if you were to do - more -
> than just speculating about it,
> you might put your HEART into the banging
> instead of only your HEAD !
> (smile...)>>
>
> More? Sorry, but seems to me that I have
> already made use of all the hearts that I
> can think/speculate heartfully about, and if
> that isn't enough ... Maybe if I were to
> start getting something out of some of my
> other organs ... ^:-/ ... or maybe that
> wouldn't be kosher, or something ...
>
> <<I think you are doing - aeeehm... - fine on
> not being selfcentered.
> Keep up the good work using your Heart in the
> matter.>>
>
> Aeeehm ... ^:-/...sorry about whatever "less
> applicable" forms of "selfcenterdness" I
> might be prone to in spite of my speculative
> attempts to "heart over" such tendencies ...
> And sorry about confusedly scratching my head
> so often in public. But, not to worry, I
> still have lots of hair left over. And ...
>
> Speculatively,
> Mauri
>
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