Theos-Talk Archives (October 2003 Message tt00092)

Hi Dallas and all of you,

My views are:

Aeehm...
I have been going through your below email.
I have to say, that I just don't understand you.

1.
How do you as a ULT-member relate to different organiztions like for
instance
the Alice A. Bailey oriented ones ?
I would like to know that, because the below remarks of yours most certainly
doesn't really relate to
the issue, which I am concerned with.

Blavatsky would certainly not make such vauge remarks on such an important
issue !
But, I know, Dallas, - you are not like Blavatsky or anything similar.
I say this not to be unpolite, but to make you understand what I am after.
In fact - I say this because I do care.

Just consider a true Blavatsky doing the same - her spiritual job - year
2003 !?
Is Theosophy Militant the same as todays ULT ? No way - Dallas !

To me - you seem to dwelve a lot into the past - and to forget the present
day Needs of the Seekers year 2003.
Theosophy encourages Growth Dallas - there we agree in your below remarks.
No indoctrination you say within Theosophy - allright - but then don't
demand that the newcomers should accept the Law of Karma as a belief - by
reading Patanjali.

2.
The issue is being how - does a Theosphical organization make a "stir in the
world".
A I am talking about a "stir", which could be called a Blavatskyian one.
These - so very sweet - and wellmeaning activities, which are going on in
the different - wisdom-groupings are allright, giving and
peaceful - on their level of understanding. No problems with that. I am
happy when my friends learn something useful.
- Arn't we all ?

But Dallas - and listen to me now - I am just not interested in "Business as
Ususal" (a term used by Martin Luther King Jr.).

I want to create a "stir in the world" like Blavatsky did. And I have my
reasons for wanting to do that.
And I do not want it in a manner or on a level - like for instance a certain
CWL, W. Q. Judge, or Annie Besant did.
I have in the previous email to this answer shortly outlined why.

3.
My view is of course just my view:
If ULT just wants to preserve and publish the original books form the early
day Theosophy - its allright and indeed fine with me.
But if they want to teach - the present day audience year 2003 - using only
a few number of ancient and inadequate books - they better reconsider what
they are doing.

Theosophy militant is not - holding hands with everyone - saying that we are
all one big family in the New Age community or something like that. -
Something which several Alice A. Bailey groups are promoting these days.
I thought Blavatsky had learned us all that years back, - but it seem, that
we have to talk about the value of it before action will be taken.

4.
The various Alice A. Bailey groups - cultural biased and other problematic
kinds of - interference with United Nations work in a quite inapropriate
manner is what is fueling my activities. Nothing lees.
Where the prey is the vultures gather.

New teaching has to be presented. It has to be done in an clear and
spritually foreceful manner giving the parties involved,
the teaching they NEED spiritually - and not just what they in their
ignorance and lack of wisdom Want or think they Want.
A NEW design - which fits in with Theosophy in a manner which enhances its
teaching and at the same time relates it to the present day year 2003 and
years to come.


Why not make the students aware of the below issues - and also explain the
content of the different links ?

Characteristics of Theosophical litterature
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theos-talk/message/12917


The Islanders
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theos-talk/message/13178
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theos-talk/message/13179
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theos-talk/message/13180


Books and beyond books
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theos-talk/message/13257





5.
Why do none dare to put Idries Shah on the same level as Blavatsky ? (Other
writers could be considered as well.)
Why do none dare to kill the dead-letter of Theosophy - when they care to
kill the dead-letter of the Christian Bible ?
--- And where do we have the Quran ?
Is it miracles, which are important - or who the guardians of Knowledge and
Renewal really is ?

I am still missing some answers.

What is required to become member of ULT ?





from
M. Sufilight wiht peace and love...




----- Original Message ----- 
From: "W. Dallas TenBreoeck" <dalval14@earthlink.net>
To: "AA-BN--Study" <study@blavatsky.net>
Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2003 12:24 PM
Subject: Theos-World RE: Theosophy, brotherhood, prayer and political
action.


Oct 8 2003

Dear Morten:

Re: The various "THEOSOPHICAL" organizations.

Consider this:

All organizations are formal bodies. They tend to restrict the
individual to some extent.

THEOSOPHY is a science and a history of research into the constitution
and operation of all aspects of Nature. It has been carried on for
millennia [see S D I 272-3]

Theosophy does not restrict. It enlarges the ability to survey our
environment, our psychology and asks "Where are you going?" To that
last question it provides answers.. It then leaves the student to
pursue his own method of self-education. In so doing it recognizes
man's freedom to choose -- which he exercises in all cases. As an
independent mental power which is wholly his own.

Therefore (as I see it) we may say:


1. THEOSOPHY is not a sect or a religion and does not demand or
encourage "adherents," growth," etc. No more than Science (e.g.:
mathematics, chemistry, physics, engineering, electronics, astronomy,
biology, archaeology, geology, medicine, etc...) demand sectarian
growth, faith or adherents.



2 THEOSOPHY is a statement of facts and laws in Nature. It is
therefore free and open to all, and invites examination in full.

It therefore speaks of

1) the UNIVERSAL EVOLUTION of intelligence and consciousness,
2) of the LAWS that bind all living beings together into an enormous
brotherhood of immortal Pilgrims, and
3) a goal for all that can be only described as ULTIMATE INDIVIDUAL
DIVINE PERFECTION.


3 The various Theosophical bodies endeavour each in their own way
to present these facts.

H P B as Messenger from the Lodge of Adepts wrote her great books (ISIS
UNVEILED, SECRET DOCTRINE, The KEY TO THEOSOPHY, The VOICE OF THE
SILENCE, THEOSOPHICAL GLOSSARY, etc...) and articles at Their dictation
or under Their supervision. She states this and gives examples of it.
They have issued several certificates stating this is the way it is.


4. These facts are not subject to argument, nor do they invite
"blind belief." THEOSOPHY encourages STUDY. Each one who approaches
those writings will have to devote some time to understanding them, then
testing, and finally applying them.


5 The main area (as I see it) in which new ground is opened for
consideration is the PSYCHOLOGICAL, and the idea that every act makes us
ALONE responsible for the consequences. (Karma).


6. It has nothing to do with the accumulation of members or any
kind of indoctrination. It UNITES it does not divide.


7 The work and function of the UNITED LODGE OF THEOSOPHISTS is to
study the laws and facts that the Lodge of Adepts provided. It offers
their original writings and has study classes on a regular basis for
their study.


8 A reading of the current issues of THEOSOPHY MAGAZINE (L A) or
the THEOSOPHICAL MOVEMENT (Bombay), published by the UNITED LODGE OF
THEOSOPHISTS , will show you how those basic teachings are looked at as
part of the great facts of existence in our World, the Earth and in our
own developing civilizations.


9. Those interested in studying THEOSOPHY will always find plenty
to work on without having to conform to any membership organizations and
their structures.--as those have nothing to do with actual THEOSOPHY .


10 If you wish to discover what the various organizations say they
offer, ask for their statement of objectives and principles and compare
them. The basic question is to determine if they inform fully and
universally, or do they restrict themselves to arbitrary cataloguing.
Each one who approaches either THEOSOPHY, or those organizations, has to
determine for themselves the value of the offerings.

No one can or ought to be arbitrarily "boxed" in any way by the opinions
of others. They have to determine who and what they are by internal
examination -- meditation in short. As a good primer for this, read the
YOGA SUTRAS of PATANJALI

Best wishes,

Dallas

=================================

-----Original Message-----
From: Morten Nymann Olesen [mailto:global-theosophy@adslhome.dk]
Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2003 2:14 PM
To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: Theos-World Theosophy, brotherhood, prayer and political
action.


Hi Leon and all of you,

Well, your remark is wellmeant I know.

To me you sort of miss the point with my email.
The point is - which Theososophical groups or offshoots are flourishing
mostly these days and why ?
And are these groups helpful to the cause - or do they need a kind
blavatskian oppostion or help ?
To me the Alice A. Bailey groupings are fast growing groups - maybe the
fastest - when we talk theosophical offshoots.

Other groups of importance ? Anyone ?

I am not against these new groups presented by you in the earliere email
in
the sense, that I think they mean well.
I am against these issue I have been touching upon in my latest 10
emails or
so, - (i.e. mostly those of them not being a reply to an email) - NOT
being
dealt with in the different Theosophical groups - because there is
certainly
a need for it - if
the Theosophical groups wants to follow Blavatskys view on a
MULTICULTURAL
approach on Theosophy.
An approach where - we cull the GOOD we find in each system of teaching
- of
course old teaching system as well as the new ones !
An approach where the ASPIRANT are being given the chance to develop a
global outlook upon the Planet - and
not the rapidly spreading Alice A. Bailey version with its - heavily
westernized teachings, calling God - "he" and
the Muslim faiths a HYBRID OFFSHOOT (EP vol1., page 167). And various
Bailey
groups ritualistic approaches are not healthy in many cases.

The Blavatsky approach is needed more than ever in our present
Information
Society !
It should of course be updated and adapted to the present day teachings.
Because we live in an information society - the importance of a
mulitcultural approach is vital. The understanding
of paradigms as well - because of the computer-age and fast
science-developments which creates fast changes in the different
countries
infrastructures.
The cameras are turning themselves more and more in the direction of the
United Nations and its work.
The United Religious Initiative shouldn't be underestimated. (Pro-Bailey
follower Robert Muller was one of the co-founders. Robert Muller is a
former
United Nations advisor to the then Secretary General U Thant).


W. Q. Judge said, that crystallization of the teaching should be
avoided. I
agree.
Now if this is what ULT are doing when they teach Theosophy - then
allright.
But I have my view - and it is that the Teachers at ULT doesn't- because
they can't, the reason being, that they stick - too much - to a limited
number of books as valid wisdom teaching.
There is an audience - there are teachers. The audience has a spiritual
need
for a certain spiritual teaching - and they won't get it at ULT for
certain
obvious reasons.
The audience also have a Want for teaching. What they Want is not always
what they spirituallę Need to be taught.

What the students can get from ULT is - reading the original works (at
least
to a certain degree). And thanks so very much for that.
This is important ! And here we can agree.

Blavatsky made a - stir in the world, in fact world wide. This is
Theosophy - proper and even Militant !
ULT - only wishpers in the wind !

The members of Theos-talk was offered to be members of ULT in an email
here
at Theos-Talk some days back.
I offered to become a member in an email.
I havnt received an answer yet.
This is not allright with me.


This is the break I will give us all.
We can only do our best.



from
M. Sufilight with peace and love...



----- Original Message ----- 
From: <leonmaurer@aol.com>
To: <theos-talk@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2003 10:29 PM
Subject: Re: Theos-World Theosophy, brotherhood, prayer and political
action.


Hey Sufi...

How about getting off the ULT bashing by innuendo business? Haven't you
got
it yet? The only way such a group like the "Noosphere" thinkers (and
doers)
could have come aćbout is if the "theosophists" who started it were
"Independent
students" -- either in or out of ULT -- and not tied up with old archaic
forms of monolithic religions or political concepts like Sufism,
Buddhism,
Hinduism, Judaism, TheosophicalSocietyism, Catholicism, Taoism,
Communism,
Capitalism, etc., etc., etc.

So, give us a break already, and start practicing what you preach, by
helping
us make theosophy dynamic in ALL directions. just go look around the
Internet at the action postings by independent theosophists (including
my
web sites,
noosphere's, Chris Holmes', Reed Carson's, noetic science groups, etc,
etc. -- 
some of which propose a whole new scientific way of looking at
theosophical
metaphysics, and others that offer action projects that are directed to
the
theosophical moles caught up in their closed spin circles, as well as
involving
the surrounding world)... And, see for yourself how many of them come
out
of
ULT, or "independent" association with theosophy, rather than any
religious,
political or philosophical organizational group.

Or, haven't you awakened yet to what's needed and going on (at least at
the
starting gate) in the practical world -- that certainly needs our help
to
straighten itself out -- before HPB's prediction of dire disaster for
human
evolution (if we don't do something about it) comes about?

What do your Sufi teachers say about that?

Best wishes,

LHM

In a message dated 10/07/03 7:17:48 AM, global-theosophy@adslhome.dk
writes:

>Hi Leon and all of you,
>
>Great.
>
>Im liked the part about
>"Since the project is dynamic"
>at the link
>http://noosphere.princeton.edu/
>
>So when do we see a dymanic Theosophy changing and adapting to the
>presnet day and circumstance ?
>
>>I politely ask.
>C-ULT ?



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