Theos-Talk Archives (August 2003 Message tt00042)

Hi Joe and all of you,

I tend to agree with you in a certain sense...

Try the following interpretation on what Theosophy is and that some parts or
Theosophical branches make certain faults because of ignorance...

*** Here is a little something ***


"1. Truth has no form;

2. The means through which people may perceive Truth have forms;

3. All forms are limited. Some of the limitations are time, place, culture,
language;

4. Different forms are not necessarily antagonistic, for the above reasons;

5. Forms have changed through the centuries in obedience to the external
world to which all forms belong;

6. When people believe that form is more important than the Truth, they will
not find truth, but will stay with form;

7. Forms are vehicles and instruments, and vehicles and instruments cannot
be called good or bad without context;

8. Forms outlive their usefulness, increase or diminish in usefulness;

9. These statements are abundantly to be found in the writings of
theosophical teachers through the ages.


*******


There are four main factors which, when applied to human beings, "programme"
them almost like machines. These are factors which are used in
indoctrination and conditioning. By their use, deliberate or otherwise, the
human mind is made more mechanical, and will tend to think along stereotyped
lines...

They are: tension alternating with relaxation, sloganisation and repetition.

Becasue most human beings are trained to accept these factors as part of
their "learning" process, almost everything which is presented to a human
being to be learned is generally converted by him into material which he
applies by these methods....

In the various groupings of people engaged in this kind of teaching whom i
have contacted during the past few years, virtually none is free from this
element or these factors. The result is that one set of slogans has been
changed for another: and phrases like "man is asleep", words like "essence",
certain exercises and techniques as well as literary material, have been
studied so closely and dilligently that they have succeeded in the main only
in indoctrination. Their instrumental effect is spent.

It is mainly for this reason that tradition repeatedly says that the
formulation must change in accordance with the people, the place and the
Work...
(An addition: Let us think about that. Too old Theosophical bibles are not
the idea. Blavatsky have also mentioned that view. I just ca'nt find the
quote right now. Anyone ???)

...if we retrace our position to the point just before the learning and
teaching became 'established' as a conditioning in the mind of the
individuals, we can reclaim the flexibility which the work demands...

People ordinarily do not reach deeply enough into themselves to find out how
to learn about what Theosophists call Reality. They make premature
assumptions about how to learn, and what attracts them must be good, and so
on, which in the end defeats their putative purpose...

*******


The repeated upsurge of apparently different schools of higher study in
various epochs and cultures is due in large part to the need to rescue
genuine traditional teachings from the automatism and
social-psychological-entertainment functions which regularly and deeply
invade and , for the most part, eventually possess them.
(An addition: That is why the present - formulation of Theosophy is not good
enough as it formulates it self today. I would suggest Comparative study as
a solution, because I myself have'nt yet found any - single authored
up-to-date - physical comprehensive teaching , which cover all the teaching,
which are available to us today on this Planet. Some have read that
Blavatsky promised that a expansion of the teaching would be made. But who
is then the author ?)

Certain physical and mental exercises, as an example, are of extremely
significant importance for the furthering of higher human functions. if
these are practised by people who use things for emotional, social or
callisthenic purposes, they will not operate on a higher level with such
people. They become merely a means of getting rid of surplus energy, or of
assuaging a sense of frustration. The practioners, however, regularly and
almost invariably mistake their subjective experiences of them for
"something higher".
(An addition: Think about how we for instance email here at Theos-talk. How
often we email, why we do it, with what quality, and with what result
etc...!?? )

It is for this reason that legitimate traditonal higher teachings are
parsimonious with their materials and exercises...

Where there is ideology, conditioning and indoctrination, a mechanical
element is introduced which drives out the factor of extradimensional
reality perception which connects the higher functions of the mind with the
higher reality.

Theosophical or spiritual experiences are designed to maintain a harmony
with and nearness to this Reality, while mechanical systems effectively
distance people from it..."


A digested and rewritten verion taken
from Learning How to Learn, by Idries Shah

(Idries Shah has been called an overlooked author by Sylvia Cranston. My
view are the same.)


from
M. Sufilight
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Joe Fulton" <jpfulton@yahoo.com>
To: <theos-talk@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2003 1:54 PM
Subject: Re: Theos-World RE: Good topic!


> I have to admit to feeling a strong sense of disconnect sometimes within
the Theosophical movement. You have an organization that was founded by an
absolutely fearless woman in the Victorian era in a world that was
immeasurably more hostile to Eastern thought than we are today. HPB in
"selling" Theosophy to the world was, quite frankly, only slightly less
shameless in her approaches than Click and Clack, the Car Talk guys. She
made alliances with people and groups that Theosophists today would shudder
to think of. Some worked for a time then fell apart, some were complete
disasters, but she did try. To her Universal Brotherhood was something to
go for and to heck with the form and philosophical niceties. She made
mistakes, we will too...but the important thing is to TRY!!!!
>
> This is a movement with a lot of really valuable things that need to be
said and a lot to contribute to the world at large. We have a very
knowledgeable, dedicated group of people in several organizations and some
completely independent who are capable of creating a literal spiritual
revolution around the world. The trick for the movement, internally seems
to be to get out of the past and start looking towards the future, firmly
rooted in the eternal.
>
> dalval14@earthlink.net wrote:
> Aug 12 2003
>
> Dear Friends:
>
> No one need think themselves insular if they extend the wealth of
> their knowledge to others. A little effort helps all.
>
> We are all student-teachers. If we offer help and companionship
> we also receive it with the same gratitude.
>
> We are truth seekers, all. As such any help is welcome.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Dallas
>
> ==================
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Griffin Eddie [
> Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2003 3:45 AM
> To:
> Subject: Good topic!
>
> Joe,
>
> I have also wondered at the insular nature of Theosphical groups.
> Excellent comment.
> This is certainly a fruitful topic. When open minded
> Theosophists tackle such issues then positive change may be in
> the wind..
>
> Your frustration shows that you care.
>
> -Ed Griffin
>
> P.S.
>
> I hope this opens up a good discussion. By sharing our
> viewpoints maybe we can learn to spread Theosophical ideas in an
> even more skillful manner.
>
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 17:37:57 -0000
> From: "jpfulton"
> Subject: Re: Yours of Aug 6th 2003 -- Present and Future? What
> will
> it be ?
>
> Sorry for the mis-impression. Rather than interpreting your
> remarks
> as quietism, I found them very fascinating...and as always, on
> the
> mark. My comments were directed more towards what I see as a
> tendency within the Theosophical movement that seemed to have its
> start after the Krishnamurti debacle in 1927 (which may have
> affected
> the PL and ULT folk in ways that they maybe didn't realize at the
> time). I have always been quite amazed at how we Theosophists
> can
> have all of the knowledge and wisdom that we do, but on the other
> hand be so insular with it that the world at large barely knows
> of
> our existence...the result of either excessive caution or lack of
> self-confidence, or loss of nerve on the part of the collective
> Theosophical movement.
>
> Joe
>
>
>
>
>
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