Theos-Talk Archives (July 2003 Message tt00059)

Hi Morton. I know you are well meaning and I wish you the best. Your message
below is very problematic in that it is appears to me to be extremely
confused and also in that there seem to be no real ideas in it, but mainly
what I guess is actually a reaction. Also, the section you refer to, "I am
the complete emergence of Morton from his cocoon," is a typo. It was
supposed to say, "I am waiting for the complete emergence of Morton from his
cocoon." Sorry about that, In anycase, I would never say anything as
nonsensical as the former, though I guess that could be interpreted by some
twist of a mixed up mind to have meaning. I assumed everyone had enough
sense to insert the missing words, but it was an error on my part to assume
this.

Guess what? This isn't a confrontation to me, and I am not feeling any
negative motions of any kind for you or about you. I am going to start
receiving this list by digest for a few days, which is the beginning of the
(temporary?) end of my participation on here, and unless the situation of
your over prolificacy changes, I will set for no more email and start
skimming the titles of messages once every day or so from the list page to
see if anything interesting comes up. I am genuinely sorry if I have hurt or
offended you in any way, but it was necessary for me to reply to you in the
way I did. If I see anything usable in any of your messages I may reply in
the future, and I may go back sometime and comment on some of your or
anyones previous material. One final comment. I am tempted to tell you what
the story of the two swords means, but I will bite my tongue and let people
discover its very important meaning for themselves, as, generally speaking,
I do not rob the opportunity to develop an active force from people by
interpreting allegory for them, though in your case, it would not be
criminal to tell so called "meaning" to others, as it makes no difference if
you tell people what you think something means or not. The true meaning of
this story is a subject I have spoken about many times and may again in the
future. Very best wishes to you To everyone else, if a message comes up you
would like me to comment upon, feel free to email me privately and this
includes material from other lists. If you do not wish me to know you have
sent me material from a list I have been banned from, feel free to use an
identity. Sincerely, Wry
----- Original Message -----
From: "Morten Nymann Olesen" <global-theosophy@adslhome.dk>
To: <theos-talk@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, July 04, 2003 1:08 PM
Subject: Re: Theos-World What a teacher is...(Wry ?)


> Hi Wry and all of you,
>
> My views are only views:
>
> The following remarks are wellmeant - and I do care.
> That is why I make them.
>
> 1.
> Wry, I think your answer was bad.
> I asked you about something and you made a bad answer to it.
>
> How can you claim to be - and I quote you:
> "the complete emergence of Morton from his cocoon", while
> saying you are NOT a teacher.
> Your use of the word "complete"
> speeks for it self.
>
> 2.
> It is a bad answer you just gave in the below.
> You also joke about jumping on other persons by calling them
> "cocoons" and a "bizarre development". Get real.
>
> Either you are losing it, or your are not sweet, but bad.
> I tend to think, that you are mad.
>
> 3.
> On the story "two swords" - you are quite right. I am sorry.
> YOU did'nt exactly say that the story was about emotions.
> I stand corrected.
> ...Well, but I DID - and I certainly stick to that...
> If you can understand these remarks - then why not the following ?
>
> 4.
> As I have said before you may BELIEVE, that you are smart and wise and
all.
> But who cares, when you are acting like you are ?
> And to "believe" you are smart - is not the same as to KNOW.
>
> 5.
> And about inducing mice to eat to much honey - so they 'die'.
> I just don't like that !
>
>
> 6.
> A wise man said once:
> When you quote a few it is plagiarism. But when you quote many - it is
> scholarship.
> So, then what are you getting at ? (Even if I quote someone your a losing
> it.)
> By the way, are you not plagiarising som Lamas from Tibet ?
> (http://www.katinkahesselink.net/arch/gb43.html - About Wry's
background...)
>
> I do not think anyone assumes that I am a wise Mahatma - and at least not
> now.
>
> So you are NOT a teacher despite you claim to have taken "many Tibetan
> teachings and initiations" ?
> Are you faking ?
>
> 7.
> A part from all this I think it is quite fair to say, that you have
nurtured
> the - existence - of chaotic conditions. And now you are running away from
> them ?
>
> 8.
> To me you look very much like another person using the name Grigor
> Annanikian.
> Maybe you know him ?
> http://essenes.crosswinds.net/hpb.html
>
> 9.
> I have a few email-stories up my sleeves on "teaching", "confrontation",
> "bombardment", "about annoying certain persons", "homegrown melons", and
the
> like which might interest you.
> My next emails are intended to be about some of these issues.
>
>
>
> I, M. Sufilight, do not know everything, but I want to...
> And I do not hope, that any readers will try to prevent me and other
> interested
> in the same from acheiving that.
>
>
> from
> M. Sufilight with peace and love...
>
> *******
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "wry" <wry1111@earthlink.net>
> To: <theos-talk@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Friday, July 04, 2003 8:17 PM
> Subject: Re: Theos-World What a teacher is...(Wry ?)
>
>
> > Hi Morton. If you ignore me maybe I will go away (for a while). I
cannot
> > recall ever saying I was a teacher on here, and do not even think of
> myself
> > in this way, though, in truth, I believe I understand a lot then most,
if
> > not all, of you, and, to me, you are a little bit like children, some a
> lot
> > more grown up than others (and I am little partial to the older
children,
> I
> > admit, which group I will not say whether or not I consider you to be a
> > member of, as I do not wish to stir you up any further). Also, you, not
I,
> > seem to be the one who is preoccupied with the idea of teachers.
Speaking
> of
> > conditioning, the more you talk about me as being a teacher, the more I
am
> > starting to think of myself as such (ha ha), but do not worry, if I ever
> did
> > become a teacher, which I am actually about to do, as I am starting a
> > learning center in my home location, I would not choose chaotic
conditions
> > such as exist on this list, to work in, as there would have to be a
> certain
> > order established for a certain kind and quality of teaching to even
> begin.
> >
> > Re the story below of the mouse and the honey, perhaps it has not
occurred
> > to you, but sometimes, in order to create certain conditions for a
certain
> > kind of learning to occur it might be necessary to put a mouse in the
> honey,
> > or even to pretend that one had fallen in. Of course, as long as you
(or
> I)
> > have negative emotions which can be stimulated at the drop of a pin,
there
> > will always be an imperfection in the honey, but this is a complex
> subject.
> > In any case, though I am from the honey-makers, I cannot make honey by
> > myself, as that is a practical impossibility. Why do you always think of
> > everything as outside of you?
> >
> > As far as my comment about you below, I made this before it began to
dawn
> on
> > me that you were using other people's material and attributing it to
> > yourself by presenting it such a way that it appeared as your own, which
> is
> > a form of plagiarism.
> >
> > As far as teachers go, people are drawn to whoever takes their pain away
> by
> > giving them honey. It is a fact, and most saddening. There are also
> > different kinds and qualities of honey for different kinds of people.
And
> > isn't it a fact that if you have to go through brambles to get a certain
> > honey, it will taste different to you than if you are eating it
everyday,
> > and also if you are eating it everyday, it will rot your teeth to the
> extent
> > that you will not be able to grip the meat, and will become very weak.
> Maybe
> > there is another kind of honey which will not take your strength away,
but
> > you personally cannot get it from the honey-makers, as we do not and
> cannot
> > give it out in the way I am sure you would like to receive it, spoon fed
> to
> > you by another while you are sitting in your highchair. Nothing is for
> free
> > in this world except perhaps a daydream, but even when you dream, you
will
> > have to sacrifice something else in exchange for it.
> >
> > Finally, you have said "Wry was right on saying that the story of the
> "Two
> > Swords" was about emotions." I have NOT said anything of the kind. This
> > story is not about that, plus you have attributed this to yourself, and
I
> do
> > not believe it is your own material. You have helped me write some good
> > messages on here, I acknowledge, and it has been interesting, and a
> learning
> > experience for me, but unless, you can engage me with something very
> > intriguing, I will need to be leaving for awhile, as I have found
another
> > location where people are more honest (not to imply that all of the
people
> > on here are not honest).
> >
> > What is a good teacher? A good teacher does not put himself up as an
> > authority and does not deal in beliefs. (We will get to this later, when
I
> > come back, as we have a problematic situation re theosophy, which will
> > eventually need to be resolved in order for the potential here to
flower).
> > In my opinion, a good teacher is someone who gives the most perfect
> > verification model of physical reality that is humanly possible and
> inspires
> > people to practice it, by going against all their inner tendencies to
take
> > the easy way out and live their lives in a lazy dream. This teacher also
> > presents material in such a way that people need to develop an active
> force
> > in order to assimilate it, and by assimilating it, will begin to develop
> > such a force, while at the same time, begin to develop their reason to
an
> > objective grade. This same teacher will also set up situations so that
> > people can begin to participate from a common ground, each for the
other,
> as
> > well as for himself. In order to work with me in the future, always
bring
> > your salt shaker, and never forget you have it with you. I am not a
> teacher
> > (unless you send me some money by paypal-ha-ha), but this is, as Bill
has
> > said, a forum for a certain kind of theater. Theater can be a very rich
> and
> > interesting medium, if it is a conscious theater, and certain very
> > interesting and important material can only be presented in such a
format.
> > Sincerely, Wry
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Morten Nymann Olesen" <global-theosophy@adslhome.dk>
> > To: "Theos Talk" <theos-talk@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Friday, July 04, 2003 2:32 AM
> > Subject: Theos-World What a teacher is...(Wry ?)
> >
> >
> > > Hi all of you,
> > >
> > > My views are only views and that is a fact:
> > >
> > > Here is a little something:
> > >
> > >
> > > What a teacher is
> > >
> > > The world is full of teachers, people who collect disciples or
> > > who in various ways instruct others.
> > >
> > > Now the wonderful thing about all this is that very few people
> > > ask what the teacher knows about teaching. The act of behaving
> > > like a teacher, or rather like people think a teacher would
> > > behave, establishes them.
> > >
> > > If a teacher is not what he appears to be, how is he or she to be
> > > defined?
> > > Try this: an ancient statement which is found in teaching
> > > materials such as Tale of the City of Brass, in the book "Thousand
> > > and One Nights":
> > >
> > >
> > > I AM
> > >
> > > A real teacher was asked how it was that he could teach, and he
> > > answered:
> > >
> > > I am what you will be:
> > > What you are, I once was.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Now the readers must by now I think be certain about that I do like
Wry
> > very much.
> > >
> > > Wry previously stated in an answer to Bill Meredith here at Theos-Talk
> > that:
> > > "Also, everyone, I am the complete emergence of Morton from his
cocoon.
> I
> > am
> > > not sure what kind of moth he going to be, but, quite honestly, this
is
> a
> > > phenomena I have never seen the likes of, and I will need to wait and
> see
> > > how things unfold before I proceed any further, as I will have to make
> > > compensations for this not necessarily unfavorable, but very bizarre,
> > > development, and factor this into my future activity."
> > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theos-talk/message/12383
> > >
> > > So I think I am entitle to ask, what does Wry know about teaching ?
> > > Even if I am a Cocoon and a bizarre case !
> > >
> > >
> > > On M. Sufilight - who I am:
> > > I am not a teacher because I am not presently at a level where I can
> teach
> > > you all at the distance. But the stories I write - are wellmeant.
> > > Wry was right on saying, that the story about "Two Swords" is about
> > emotions.
> > > Now I degrade myself a little - and let us see what happens...
> > >
> > >
> > > from
> > > M. Sufilight with peace and love...
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>