Theos-Talk Archives (June 2003 Message tt00241)

Hi Dallas and all of you,

I enjoyed your email. Thanks for that Dallas !

In general I agree a lot with its content.
But, but...

Dallas wrote:
"Common sense" and
"openness" are the characteristics of true Knowledge and of
WISDOM.

My Sufilight answer:
I disagree with that. Can you please explain how you
can equate "Common sense" and "openness" with what you call "WISDOM" ?
I just do'nt get it. Maybe some other readers care to make a remark on that.
Anyone ?


Other views on the below encapsulated with *******.
Views not covered here - are somewhere covered in the emails I have made
during the last week or so.


from
M. Sufilight with peace and love...


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "dalval14" <dalval14@earthlink.net>
To: "AA-BN--Study" <study@blavatsky.net>
Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2003 8:04 AM
Subject: Theos-World RE: When is learning not Indoctrination ?


> Monday, June 23, 2003
>
> Re INDOCTRINATION and Freedom of Thought
>
>
> Dear Friend:
>
> I believe that there are other approaches to this problem:
>
> Learning is a self-generated and voluntary effort to acquire
> information.
>
>
> Of course, in early childhood the process of adapting itself to a
> new body, brain and environment poses on the growing, thirsting
> attention of the child's consciousness the need for acquiring the
> tools for communication with its parents, guardians, instructors
> and environment; -- it is a full time affair.
>
>
> As we grow up and realize some of the information acquired is
> inaccurate, a sense of annoyance against those who have installed
> distortions arises. Why did they waste our time and abuse our
> trust?
>
> Students who have read the history of various nations, or
> reviewed events of national or political significance, realize
> that information given was often non-objective and skewed.
>
> This instills us with doubts and we begin to build the filters we
> install mentally to secure accuracy and corroboration. These are
> self-chosen.
>
> Not everyone feels an anxiety to secure unbiased data. This
> leads to the acceptance, without verification, of political,
> national and religious "leaders, priests, authorities..." and
> from those, sundry accounts, lore and so called verities.
> Eventually such carelessness makes for pain and sorrow when
> proved to be wrong.
>
> If we neglect this process we may receive and accept
> "authoritative" statements the exact value of which we have no
> way to determine. We enter the great crowd of those who are
> "true believers," and who may fight with dogged persistence for
> their unsupportable opinions and views.
>
> Here lies the danger of "leadership." and of claims to special
> knowledge.
>
> True knowledge is always free and invites, always, questioning
> and verifying. On examination it can always be traced back to
> prime principles and someone prime base. "Common sense" and
> "openness" are the characteristics of true Knowledge and of
> WISDOM. It is always universal, impersonal, just and true --
> and it pays no respect to special interests, limited territorial
> locations and claims.
>
> This eliminates "indoctrination."
>
> Our brief life is no measure of Cosmic time-scales, except by
> analogy. Where can we seek analogies that are verifiable ?
>
> 1. We know that "we" exist.
>
> 2. We know that we are surrounded by an enormous sensitive
> cocoon; and we call it the Universe, or Nature, or Deity, or
> whatnot. Its characteristics are repetitive LAW and LAWS. In
> mathematics, physics, chemistry, biology, psychology, philosophy,
> astronomy, atomics, electronics, and in fact, in all departments
> of Nature that can be researched, show this quality as a basis.
> Facts have to be demonstrable.
>
> 3. We also know that we have repetitive relationships with Nature
> in many of its departments. In fact we depend on it for our
> lives. Can we say we are "creatures" of Nature, or that it has
> "indoctrinated us? Has it any special interest in us that we can
> determine? Does it seek to keep us ignorant and "faithful blind
> believers?"
>
> If it had, where and how did we acquire the freedom to inquire --
> as you demonstrate?
*******My Sufilight answer:
A little enhancement. The freedom to inquire depends so very much upon the
individuals limitations.
Fear from time to time limits the individal seekers capeability to use his
or hers
freedom to inquire.*******

> I believe we can apply this type of reasoning to any problem or
> circumstance.
>
> Each one grows in knowledge and ability according to his or her
> own determination, perseverance and WILL. There is a single
> criterion needed: Honesty and a desire to discover universal
> TRUTH.
>
> Now, considering this vast effort in which we all participate to
> some extent, do we ask ourselves seriously, when life comes to an
> end in this body of ours in "us," what happens to this accumulate
> learning? Is it carried forward as: character, inclination,
> talent, genius, persistence?
>
> Theosophy posits reincarnation as a solution, and as an
> actuality. In this regard, it looks on every life as a day spent
> in the vast School of universal experience. Is this
> unreasonable? The Spiritual Soul, the MIND seems to persist and
> is as far as we know stable and on it are deposited all memories.
> Are these revived and resuscitated?
>
>
> But, I may be quite wrong in this, if so, let me know how and
> where.
*******
My Sufilight answer:
Aeeehm... Even if some of us here at Theos-Talk and elsewhere knows about
reincarnation,
would it not be WRONG to so very often - tear down a free debate on the
issue of "reincarnation". This when taken into account, that it can be said
by a number of Seekers, that they do'nt know anything about if -
reincarnation is a reality or not ?
I just write this because I sense a tendency among theosophist around the
world to do exactly that. This also goes for the Editors of different
Theosophical Magazines.

There are with other words a tendency to promote a certain kind of BELIEF
before real KNOWLEDGE is promoted. This just does'nt ring my bells year
2003. But year 1888 it seemed right did'nt it ?
---
So very important: The use of ideas is to shape a man or woman, not to
support a system – which is viewed in a limited manner. This is one way in
which the Wisdom Tradition is ‘living’, and not just the perpetuations of
ideas and movements. This seems important to understand and know about.
http://home19.inet.tele.dk/global-theosophy/BLAVATSK.HTM

*******
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Dallas
>
> =======================
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Morten
> Sent: Monday, June 23, 2003 10:37 AM
> To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: When is learning not Indoctrination ?
>
> Hi all of you,
>
> Here is a little something:
>
> When is learning not Indoctrination ?
>
> Indoctrination may be called 'the instilling of attitudes without
> the saving grace of digesting them'. Indoctrination is not what
> some people claim, that is to say the more rapid accomplishment
> of something which ordinarily takes a culture many years to
> achieve.
>
> What makes a 'digested' system more acceptable than an
> imposed one ?
>
> Two things. First a greater time-scale and conditions of
> freedom give an opportunity for rejection. Second, where there
> is a time-scale measured in years - and where there is oppor-
> tunity for dissent and discussion, there is room for
> modification.
> Inducing people to believe things - and the, usually, turning
> around and saying that this belief, because it is belief, is
> sacred or
> even inevitable - is the hallmark of indoctrination.
>
> Putting forward, and giving people information which
> enables them to test these (including testing then against other
> ideas) spells freedom and education, both of which are distorted
> or abolished by indoctrination.
>
> Two things prevent the foregoing being widely known at the
> present
> time: -
>
> 1. The discovery, certainly in the 'West' and modern world, is
> recent. It will take time to percolate.
>
> 2. When the facts are presented, they are an embarrassment to
> those who, examining their own attitudes, realise that,
> in certain areas, they are themselves victims of
> indoctrination.
>
>
> from
> M. Sufilight with peace and love...
>
>
>
>
>
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>
>