Theos-Talk Archives (May 2003 Message tt00229)

----- Original Message -----
From: <dalval14@e...>
To: <study@b...>
Sent: Friday, May 23, 2003 1:20 PM
Subject: [bn-study] RE: REINCARNATION SUPPORTED -- Ocean Ch. .10


cut> To lose sight of immortality and purpose is to submit to
> "Ahankara" or the sense of "Lower-self-ishness. One then places
> the personality ahead of the SELF -- the ATMAN.
>
cut

<<Wry: And to try to hold this in sight creates and reinforces duality in the
most deadly, insiduous way. The personality wants to be "immortal" and will
hold to this idea, thereby being bonded to the sense of "Lower-self-ishness"
with no way out. Maybe by this means, there can be a certain kind of
spiritual progression, but it will always be stopped short by the device of
the image of oneself being immortal. This is the last thing to ever tell
ignorant people of personality. The proper approach is to reinforce and
hammer in the idea of the inevitabitity of death. This alone will spur
people to make the appropriate efforts. Of course, if the time appropriate
aim of her teachings was to replace Christianity with a different
perspective, then it makes sense that she would speak of immortality in this
way. It was an interesting experiment, but methods are always being refined
and though the ultimate aim might be the same, the means is always being
adjusted to satisfy the conditions for its accomplishments.>>

Herm:
Do you really understand what Blavatsky's purpose was, other than what she 
constantly reiterated in her books and their introductions? I've read (and 
listened to) every word she ever wrote, and I have never heard her say or even 
imply that she was trying to set up a new religion or "replace Christianity." How 
can you assume that what she was or Dalval is talking about is the 
"immortality of the personality"? (Have you read all of her teachings? If so, have you 
found any inconsistencies or "time dependencies"?) Of course, HPB never 
taught that, nor can it be true -- since it's obvious that the physical body and 
the personality it assumes (and changes continually) doesn't remain after 
death. All that does are the skandas and the individual higher Self that is 
destined to reincarnate again and again until Nirvana or the next stage of universal 
consciousness is reached. (If one doesn't annihilate oneself eventually, by 
becoming an "absolute materialist" or "hungry ghost"). Your materialistic 
arguments, concerns and disagreements with theosophical principles, appear to be 
leading in that direction.

The whole purpose of theosophy is to teach that the only reality is that 
eternal higher Self, who must learn to eliminate the ignorance and control the 
actions of the lower, temporary animal selves it joins with and inhabits on 
materialization. Your concept of a "duality" between the understanding of the 
difference between the lower and higher self is a primitive interpretation of 
HPB's occult teachings. There is no inherent separation between anything in the 
universe... Although, the nature of the different fields of consciousness give 
the illusion of duality's. One must see the "dependently arising" trinity of 
the All, or each manifest Monad (as a unity), to understand the fundamental 
duality within it. Thus, the fundamental duality on the manifest planes is that 
between spirit and matter. (But, they are both aspects of the same unmanifest 
Absolute reality.) To deny this, is the most "deadly and insidious" way to 
force ignorant people to worship their body and their personality, and ignore 
their spirit -- which is, essentially, their conscience. 

Wry: As far as the possibility of actual "immortality," because of the way a
"monad" is formed interdependently in relationship to the physical body and
its position on earth in relationship to the sun, it is unlikely that a
human being could achieve an individual existence past the life of the solar
system. Whoever you are, if you are hooked on donkey corn, ponder this idea
and feel the sorrow that will make you a man and not a child. Sincerely, Wry

Herm: Well, that's a long enough "eternity" for my higher individual 
self-awareness, since I expect to have many many self-chosen rebirths (some, maybe 
more than "human" or homo sapien) before that inevitable transformation into a 
higher state of cosmic consciousness. Knowing that, is what makes it easy for 
us to face the welcome and inevitable, periodic "deaths" on this "personality" 
level of existence. So, hold the poppycock, and worry about your own 
attainment of "manhood" -- which, if you are not careful, and continue speaking as a 
"materialist," might make you lose the innocence of being a child in spirit 
while a "man" in body (or "wombman," if that's what you are:). 

Best wishes,

Hermes