Theos-Talk Archives (February 2003 Message tt00334)

Hi. Here is a message I am going to post on another forum later today. I put
it out here as my response to the people who are comparing President Bush to
Hitler, as I do not have time to write a separate message, When you or
anyone handle material in this way, it is evidence that you believe Bush to
exist on his own side as an independent entity, and not as a result of
surrounding causes and conditions. Moreover, as far as I can tell, your
message serves no FUNCTION that I can think of, except perhaps in that it
gives me an opportunity to write this message. Would it not be better to try
to use this forum in such a way that we can radically change by these
interactions so that every act we do also changes the world around us rather
than just being a reaction? In regard to what Bush does or does not do, my
guess is that the die is already cast, and maybe this is the case with many,
if not even all, of us. To be outside of what is happening and consciously
directing it, with a true knowledge of scales or lines of activity, and how
they connect and interconnect to receive a desired end result would be
extraordinary.

Generally speaking, I don't like speculative questions, but, if you were a
deeply religious Jew in Germany in the time of Hitler, do you think you
would have been angry or sad or some other emotion? Also, do you think a
resistance fighter who was impartial and clear -minded would have had a
better chance of stopping Hitler than a resistance worker who was angry?
Which would have had a better chance of connecting to something very alert
and intelligent within
imself? -------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------------

Hi. This is Wry with a reply to the message below. When a person defines
himself an atheist to a Christian, he is setting up a dichotomy. If two
people join hands and do a humanitarian project, such as feed a hungry
person, put water on a house that is burning, or help rescue someone who is
in that house, they will be brothers (in Christ, if you want to look at it
that way, but you do not have to look at it any way, for it to be so.)

When two people set up a dichotomy by contrasting one idea to another in
such a way that there cannot be mutual learning, and the holders of these
seemingly opposing ideas are not willing to let go of there fixed
conclusions, just a little bit, so that they can discover with an open mind
and heart how to come together, this reinforces and encourages a fundamental
or literal interpretation of anything and everything, including so called
"atheism," which will never lead to any kind of genuine salvation, if there
is such a thing, or freedom from a literal interpretation of the letter.

I found your story to be quite interesting, but the fact of the matter is
that little boy's situation was a result of the combined and
interconnected factors of many causes and conditions, all related to human
ignorance, and if you hold responsible the Christians in the church who
bussed him across the tracks on Sunday, you will also have to hold his own
parents responsible, as their minds, like the minds of the Christians, were
also shaped by the causes and conditions of their upbringing, and I do not
see any difference. If you do not hold his parents responsible, then you
cannot hold the Christians responsible, and if you understand this fully,
this is the beginning of becoming responsible.

In my opinion, to be an "atheist" and to strive DAILY to live ones life
morally and CONSCIOUSLY without believing in anything, would be very brave,
and would actually be a true act of FAITH as it is referred to in the Bible,
but we do not see many atheists living this way. And also, in my opinion,
to be a TRUE Christian would also mean to live ones life in exactly the same
way. There is no contradiction, and this would also be an act of faith, as
to live CONSCIOUSLY is to BE-live in a way that directly faces the void, and
if you go back to the original Greek meaning of believe, which I am sure at
least some of you have done, you will find this meaning in that word.

I know this sounds critical, but this message is not really for you so much
as for everyone, including myself. I like it that you gave your personal
experience in this instance. It is sad that this boy ended up in prison. I
believe
it is because there were not enough educated people dedicated to working
with
him and people like him. By educated I do not mean college educated, but
rather spiritually educated. It is, in my opinion, the responsibility of
each of us to use an opportunity (such as a forum like this, for example)
not to small talk and shoot the bull, but to engage in the kind and quality
of interchange that will help each of us to develop greater discrimination
(wisdom) and learn how to contrast this to that in such a way that we can
resolve the horrible suffering of seeming contradiction not only for
ourselves, but also for others. Sincerely, Wry

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