Theos-Talk Archives (February 2003 Message tt00178)

Hi. When I spoke about stopping war, I was speaking about stopping the
causes of war from developing.

But you have given an interesting message. Because you have capitalized the
words "not interfere with karma," I am inferring that in this instance you
are assuming that I am attempting to do this and you are admonishing me not
to, but this is a subtle interpretation and maybe I am reading something
into this that is not there.

But let's say that someone who is a member of "the white brotherhood" is on
this list and they notice a lot of fighting going on here. Do you think they
should # 1.interfere #2. not interfere or #3. Do you think it depends on
the surrounding causes and conditions and what the person intends to
consciously DO in terms of helping greater humanity, or is this not a
factor? These questions are asked in the spirit of enquiry. Also, #4. Where
do you get this information about the "white brotherhood" and what it
supposed to do or not do? I am looking forward to hearing this answer,

I used to be a pre-school teacher and was trained not to interfere with the
fights of little children and let them work it out with their peers, as this
is part of their developmental process, and I think this is very good
advice, which could be applied on a larger scale with adults, and I have
often thought of putting this out here, as many people, not just on this
list, but on the internet in general, are too protective of other people's
feelings. Generally speaking, not only are people stronger and more
resilient than most people realize, but unless they are allowed to work
things out for themselves, they will never develop the skills to do so.
Moreover, and this is a key point I have discovered in my study of bulletin
board formats, the closer the bulletin board mirrors the conditions of
ordinary life in certain ways, the faster the learning will occur and the
bigger the leaps will be, but a lot of the way a board is set up depends on
the motivation of the person who is doing so and how he wants to use it.
Because no one (that I know of or have ever been around) has ever done the
kind of studies I have done, it is understandable that my assessment of the
great, incredible and amazing potential of the bulletin board format to be a
medium for the transformation of the consciousness of humanity is not yet
realized or shared by others, though that is going to change. But what if a
preschooler is about to hit his neighbor over the head with a heavy object?
In this instance the teacher would step in. Or what if children were not
physically hurting each other, but there was a war and their loud quibbling
would attract the attention of a predator? Or what if their fighting
interuppted an activity of the School, whose aim was to develop the
children's skill so that they could eventually attend kindergarten?

Finally, as far as stopping a physical war between nations, you imply that
"the white brotherhood" is capable of interfering with the karma of humanity
in such a way that they could physically stop a war, thereby interfering
with the karma of perhaps hundreds of thousands or even millions of
participants, and I think this is something worth thinking through, as I do
not believe this is actually the case. The problem is that when I deal in
broad and abstract concepts which trigger certain pleasurable (or
unpleasurable) emotional responses, I tend to not get in touch with the
specific by which all GREATER DOING is accomplished, which specifics always
have to do with the understanding of scales in relationship to the little
events in the nitty-gritty and how to combine them in a certain way with
ones own actions and activities in order to achieve a larger aim which is
for the good of many.

I do not understand that much about karma, though I have had a lot of
teachings on this subject, but, from what I do understand, it is next to
impossible for one individual to interfere with another's karma, as once the
seeds of the causes and conditions are fruiting, there is no way to stop it,
and it is common sense that if something is suppressed or forced down, it
will mechanically rise up again, with even renewed vigor. as anyone who has
ever tried to suppress an emotion and observed what eventually will happen
must well realize.

There is another way to work with karma which most interesting, and this has
to do with the releasing of tiny increments of knowledge at the appropriate
time and place (juncture). It is also possible to set up situations in such
a way that the participants can "see themselves." Has this ever happened
with you or someone you know? There is an argument, and maybe a third party
who points something out or maybe not, but suddenly the two participants see
what is happening AS IF FROM OUTSIDE, or from a different perspective, and
they both start laughing, and that is the end of it. There has been
learning.

Notice that my messages are quite specific, though I can always be more so.
I was not born being specific, but have had to learn how to do so, by
practicing being specific over and over, with this aim in mind. I am not
dealing in vague generalizations, but I have done so before and will
probably do so again as it is so easy, too easy.

Re my previous message about war, it is easy to interpret material literally
in such a way that one misses the obviously intended nuance. There is an
understandable tendency to do this, as if a subtle allegory or an outright
meaning reaches me fully in the way it was intended and touches a part of me
that is not fully conscious of certain material, my view will be changed, by
the releasing of certain other material from within myself. Or perhaps if I
fully understand the allegory or outright meaning, a different kind of
alignment will occur in which I am fenced a certain way so as to emit a
certain response, and by emiting said response, I will lose part of what I
perceive to be "myself, which is formed as a movement away from aligning
with (facing) certain material that is traumatic and will involve unbearable
sorrow to fully process. I realize this last paragraph will be a little
difficult for some people to understand, but, if so, please try to struggle
with this material, as it is important. Thanks for your response, which I
greatly appreciate. Sincerely, Wry

----- Original Message -----
From: <mail@katinkahesselink.net>
To: <theos-talk@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, February 14, 2003 6:06 AM
Subject: Theos-World Re: white brotherhood and war


> Hi Wry,
>
> The white brotherhood is supposed to NOT INTERFERE WITH KARMA. So to
> the extent that war is a result of karma, they will not try to stop
> it. On the other hand, they will try to prevent the causes of war
> from developing. The brotherhood we try to live on this list and in
> the Theosophical Societies is part of that.
>
> Katinka
> --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "wry" <wry1111@e...> wrote:
> > Do you believe there is a nucleus
> > of people on earth who are of a higher level of awareness than you
> and I? If
> > so, what do you think they are doing right now? How would a person
> like this
> > spend his time? Would the way he spends his time and the activities
> he
> > chooses somehow interact with and affect his level of awareness and
> his
> > emmisions or emanations as a physicality in such a way that other
> human
> > beings would also somehow be affected? Would his emanation be
> different when
> > he was in a state of wordless prayer or gratitude or deep enquiry or
> > meditation or sharing with others his effort to be conscious than
> when he
> > was reading a magazine or picking his toes? What do you think?
> >
> > I do irrelevant activities, too, and sometimes I have to stop and
> ask myself
> > this question. What am I going to do after I make this message, and
> will the
> > quality of attention be different? I am trying to set up this
> message so
> > that not only I will get something out of it, but others will, too.
> In this
> > way, I am attempting to participate. Sincerely, Wry
>
>
>
>
>
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