Theos-Talk Archives (February 2003 Message tt00085)

Hi. Dallas, There is something very odd about this message you have written
me. It is poignantly warped. You are as precious as my cat (or my grandson)
or a homeless person on the street. Moreover, your messages are great
teaching tools and I am going to more actively approach them as such from
now on.See below.

----- Original Message -----
From: <dalval14@earthlink.net>
To: "Theosophy Study List" <theos-l@list.vnet.net>
Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 12:58 PM
Subject: RE: GREAT SORROW: Wry on Blavatsky: Part Five


> Thursday, February 06, 2003
>
> Dear Wry:
>
> Immortality is of several kinds Theosophy teaches.
>
> 1. There is the all-enveloping SPIRIT -- the IDEAL basis. Nothing in
> the Universe escapes this enveloping ONENESS and UNITY. In effect it
> is the basis for Universal Brotherhood.
>
> 2. Each individual being has for its base an immortal "ray" or if you
> desire to call it so --a "portion" of that SPIRIT -- as a resident
> inside it. Hence it is called in THEOSOPHY a MONAD. Actually the
> Monad is a duality as it is both SPIRIT and primordial matter
> INTERTWINED.
>
> We hold in THEOSOPHY, that every being from "atom" to Universe" shares
> in each other, and are "brothers in fact" as well as in "spirit."

WRY: I have read all this more than one time too many. It is a belief, plus
it actually serves no function to believe this stuff. To be a brother all
one needs to do is to impartially record that person and oneself at the same
time. DOES THIS MAKE SENSE TO YOU? I HOPE IT DOES.

>
> 3. Every "Personality" or "form" is built up of millions of these
> individual Monads. And to organize them one of the aspects of the
> "personality" serves as a matrix -- a lattice work of electro-magnetic
> force on which atoms, molecules, cells etc.. arrange themselves in
> patterns to which intelligence and through which a conjoined
> "intelligent and conscious life" can reside and manifest. This gives
> every human his or her free and independent MIND.

WRY: Actually, a conditioned mind is not free and the intelligence cannot
manifest fully though a complex of mechanical and associative responses that
is only connected to it throughj occasional FLICKERS. This is the big FLAW;
the FANTASY that that consciousness is continuous from point a to point b to
point c. I have already written about this. Do you not get it? It is easy to
understand, though admittedly difficult to face, as then the false illusion
must crumble. But after this, there can be real hope, a rainbow, and a real
I, the final component of a mature soul. "God" help us all. We are pathetic.

>
> True, I claim no authority, and only suggest you study Theosophy
> thoroughly before you raise criticism or questions.

WRY: Study yourself, by starting with an impartial recording of yourself as
you are, for the first few years. Eventually you may be ABLE to relate to
me. This is the Work. I suggest this approach, which is not in
contradiction to anything Madame Blavatsky has said. Plus, you are telling
me not to ask any questions. It is whacked. Certain people will not stay.
Maybe someone who can help you and your group will come along but you will
drive him away, as he only has so much time. It is not that theosophy is
garbage, but when you say stuff like the above, there is no chance to eat
good food. It is hopeless and self-defeating.
>
> I would disagree in calling Theosophy a "belief system." Its
> presentation belies that.

WRY: She says again and again that it is not, but it all meaningless if
people turn it into a belief system.

>
> But I see you find need to go to the barnyard for your expletives.

WRY: Now here is something interesting. You have said, "I would disagree in
calling "Theosophy" a "belief system." It's presentation belies that. But I
see you find need to go to the barnyard for your expletives." Where is the
sense in this? What does this mean? Because I used the word "bull-shit"
theosophy is not a belief system? In any case,FROM THE SHIT PILE GROWS A
ROSE, at least when Wry gardens, and also, a super-conductor works better
when it's dirty.

To recap. You are saying and have said many times something to the effect
that people will realize their brotherhood by realizing they are immortal.
This is not the way it works. I (or anyone else, for that matter) do NOT, I
repeat, do NOT need to study the writings of Madame Blavatsky thoroughly to
have an intelligent conversation about a subject of theosophy with you and
it is both inappropriate AND AGAINST THE SPIRIT OF THEOSOPHY that you
suggest that they do One does NOT need to read the Bible to find out about
Jesus nor does one have to read the writings of Madame Blavatsky to discover
the teachings of theosophy. Some will be inclined to read key texts, others
will not, but people discusiing the ideas of whatever books, in their own
words, and tailoring their conversation in such a way that in answering
questions, learning will flower on many different levels, will further the
teachings that are given in any text. It is an act of love to learn how to
do this and in doing so, you will acquire the gift of speech. You will be
able to go anyplace and further the teaching of theosophy or whatever
without even needing to mention the originator or refer to the texts if that
is what an individual situation requires. I have learned this from my own
experience. I can go anywhere and explain and share my ideas in the language
of that land, as the language of true brotherhood is universal. You do not
realize it, but I have been using your language as an act of love and
friendship, from day one. You do not even hear me as you are too caught up
in the exact letters of the book. Wry
>
> Enough
>
> Dallas
>
> =========================
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: wry [mailto:wry1111@earthlink.net]
> Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 10:51 AM
> To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> Cc: Theosophy Study List
> Subject: Theos-World GREAT SORROW: Wry on Blavatsky: Part Five
>
> Hi. To begin, sorry the previous message was supposed to be sent to
> Theosophy Study List. In any case, in my very first message on here I
> complained about you posting my material on other lists, AND YOU ARE
> STILL
> DOING IT. It would not be so bad if you posted the whole message, but
> you do
> not. You do not care and this is discouraging. In any case, see below.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <dalval14@earthlink.net>
> To: "Theosophy Study List" <theos-l@list.vnet.net>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 8:07 PM
> Subject: FW: RE: : Wry on Blavatsky: Part Four
>
>
> >
> >
> > Wednesday, February 05, 2003
> >
> >
> > Dear Wry and Katinka:
> >
> >
> > May I break in here and offer a few thoughts ?
> >
> > Let me offer the following as a student for over 60 years of Mme.
> > Blavatsky's writings. I make no claim for myself, but am quite
> > prepared to deal with most inquiries about THEOSOPHY such as she
> > exposed it to us to learn from. When I am "out of my depth," I say
> > so.
>
> WRY: Then how come you have not answered or acknowledged my one
> question to
> you about immortality so that we can have an enquiry. Even if it is
> true
> (which it is not, and I will go into this when we enquire, what is the
> FUNCTION of telling people this? You obvious CANNOT answer, which is
> o.k.,
> but you have not acknowledged this question or said, honestly, that
> you
> don't know.
>
> >
> > I think you may mistake the purpose of Mme. Blavatsky's writings.
>
> WRY: I think YOU may.
> >
> > In all they make a report on History.
>
> WRY: You are no authority on this subject. You say they do. I say they
> do
> not. It is a belief system and to subscribe to it involves taking
> stuff on
> belief. Certain kinds and qualities of true discrimination cannot be
> developed in this way. It is contrary to their development. Plus you
> to not
> need to know this. It is meaningless, distortional and will keep you
> from
> discovering what you really do need to no in order to be in a real
> brotherhood and to help establish that for others.
>
> >
> > They write about the ideals, the laws of universal life, and of that
> > which relates to "SPIRIT" as the highest level we can imagine and
> > think of.
>
> WRY: This is bull-crap and drivel. It is NOT the higest level.
> Moreover one
> CANNOT IMAGINE THE NEXT LEVEL. Where is your CONSCIENCE for saying
> stuff
> like this? You are blatheriong nothiong about nothing.
>
> >
> > She is not what I would call a "spiritual writer." The word
> > "spiritual" has been abused, and needs careful definition in all
> cases
> > of use. In her case, I would say she exposes a knowledge that is
> > inspiring of itself. The only claim she made was that she was a
> > "messenger" from those whom she designated as the MASTERS OF WISDOM.
> > ISIS UNVEILED for instance reveals age old and earth-wide patters of
> > learning and records anomalous events in history which deserve
> further
> > investigation.
>
> WRY: More bland meaniongless blather and pouring from the empty into
> the
> void. This is not your best hour, though I have seen you timidly begin
> to
> approach real enquiry on a very few occasions. At this point, just
> investigate yourself.
>
> >
> > In The SECRET DOCTRINE she discusses the Laws of the Universe and
> the
> > interaction of Intelligence and Consciousness in the program of
> > Evolution, considered as an ancient and universe-wide phenomena. She
> > says we are all involved in this and have been so for an incredible
> > antiquity in the past, (as spiritual beings) and will continue to be
> > involved into the foreseeable future.
>
> WRY: This is a belief and which is not FUNCTIONAL in relationship to
> anyones
> developing genuine discrimination, but also serves to create
> DISORDER.
> >
>
> > Now, can we set ourselves to studying that ? Perhaps we might all
> > learn from that if we do it systematically.
>
> WRY: Then start with a question and not a belief. For any premise
> which you
> cannot demonstrate the truth of, I can give another.
>
> >
> > We all enter any study with certain personal pre-conceived ideas If
> > we allow those to bias our study, we will find the result to be
> biased
> > in the same way. We have to pursue all studies impersonally if we
> > desire to secure accurate and true results.
>
>
> WRY: For YOU to talk this way is dishonest, if not immoral.
>
> >
> > I have found that those teachings and statements bridge the gaps
> left
> > in the narration of the past by the destruction of ancient texts and
> > records which invaders systematically destroyed in several areas
> > (about 2000 to 5000 years ago) -- around Egypt, Mesopotamia and the
> > Middle East, and India.
>
>
> WRY: There is no real "I" speaking here. Who cares what you find? You
> fantasy that you know what you do not and try to tell this to others.
> This
> is AUTHORITARIAN.
>
> >This resulted in almost a total isolation of
> > the modern West from its antecedents. Grecian knowledge was saved by
> a
> > few scholars who withdrew from the West taking their precious
> > manuscripts with them into the seclusion and fastnesses of the
> Middle
> > East for a while. The Florentine Renaissance, as an example, was
> the
> > result of some of those being returned to Europe where they were
> > cherished, studied, discussed and reproduced. The patterns are clear
> > to a student of the history of ideas and philosophy.
>
>
> WRY: You are lost.
>
> >Another of such
> > impacts was recoded around the time of H P B's writing when the
> > treasures of Oriental wisdom were made widely available by scholars
> > like Max Mueller, and others. It was also a time when knowledge was
> > ever more freeing itself of the shackles of priestly dogmatism in
> > Europe. Science was being set free to examine Nature and her many
> > areas of life as she was in reality.
>
> WRY: So lost.
> >
> > These writings of H P B state the nature of the patterns and events
> > that mark the workings of the Universe, and these include, in time,
> > the most ancient beginnings of our Universe, our solar system, and
> in
> > particular, they focus on the evolution of consciousness, purpose of
> > mankind and of life on earth.
>
> WRY: Ancient people did not think and talk like you do. They were more
> able
> to verify. The way you are thinking and talking is an example of why
> people
> lost their "knowledge" which you erroneously consider to be a material
> set
> in stone and this sets you in stone.
>
>
> >
> > They also trace in detail the evolution of mankind from three
> > different areas that are conjoined in each of us. It is as though H
> P
> > B was, as a scientist, were to write impartially about the laws of
> > nature which he had researched.-- surely there is no objection to
> > that?
>
> WRY: This is fantasy. You are BELIEVING this. Re the material below,
> I will
> reply to this later. You seem to have NO SENSE OF PROPORTION.
> Sometimes
> there are six or even more long messages from you in one day, not to
> mention
> your double emails when you post the same material on two lists. You
> seem to
> have no grasp or even an elementary understanding of how human beings
> assimilate material. You really do not understand. You learn too slow.
> You
> do not catch on to the obvious. It is sad. Do you not care about other
> people and, with love in your heart, want learning to flower for us
> all?
> This is sad. Wry
>
> cut
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
> ---
> You are currently subscribed to theos-l as: wry1111@earthlink.net
> List URL - http://list.vnet.net/?enter=theos-l
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-theos-l-30975D@list.vnet.net