re ABC Leon, shoreline/deeper Theosophy, various ...
Jan 29, 2003 07:47 AM
Leon wrote: << Theosophy has no degrees, certificates,
grades or ratings to recognize anyone's level of knowledge or
That seems relevant enough, in a way. But having learned
about the likes of "shoreline Theosophy," some people may
wonder about other kinds of Theosophic understanding, I
<<You either have it or you don't. What level it's at is
irrelevant. (Sometimes truth comes out of the mouths of
babies.) One's knowledge can only be known to oneself -- or
to others on its own merits, or by its fruits -- either, in the way
one lives one's life, or the level at which one can help and
teach others. There are no other criteria.<<
<<The study of theosophy is entirely self devised and
depends solely on one's individual self determined effort.>>
"Self-devised," Leon? It may be "self devised," in a sense,
for all of us. But I tend to wonder what KIND of "self"
devised study is it for those who (apparently?) seem, (from
my tentative/speculative perspective, at any rate), to be
leaning on various rather literal interpretations.
<<There's no trick to it. >>
I tend to agree, but then why is it that so few people seem to
be enlightened these days, I wonder ... Could it be that
there's a kind of t/Theosophy that's so close to us that we tend
not to see it ... Of course there's "no trick to it," but/"but"... I
suspect that that, in itself, might be "the trick," (in a sense?),
for some of us: that "it's" so close to us that, like the tip of our
nose, we have trouble seeing "it" ...?
<<You either do it and get it, or you don't -- depending on
how far you are individually capable of penetrating into its
depths. Some people, are still "children" who cannot get past
its shallows (no matter how old they are). If they begin to
drown, maybe they should go back to its shoreline and start
wading out again until they learn to swim. But, then, if they
aren't willing to do that, maybe they can sit by and wait to
grow up during their next lifetime.>>>>
>From one's shoreline, one wades deeper and deeper, and then,
one either turns back, sinks, or swims, eh? Something like
that? So obviously all shoreline Theosophists ought to pay
close attention to those "blinds," (if they're seen as kind of
like warning signs, eh?), in order to keep from drowning? But
if people like Gerald go around taking those signs, or"blinds,"
down ... well, I don't know. Scary thoughts come to mind.
And as if all that weren't scary enough, already, then we have
Leon apparently doing his best trying to set off something
that (might amount to?) some kind of newfangled ABC bomb,
maybe!? So no wonder more and more people (like BAG, for
example?) seem to be getting more and more frustrated (or
something?) and turning to the likes of Bhakti Yoga, and
whatever?! ... ^:-) ...>>
<<The only judgments you can make is about your own level
of understanding of theosophy.>>
Yeah, but/"but" ...
<<What others think about their own understandings are
strictly up to them. >>
I suspect that, in a sense, if "it" were stricktly enough "up to
them," they might be enlinghtened. That is, I tend to think
that humans inter-react karmically to the extent that all
thoughts, and even "up to them" matters, often tend to get
affected by karma and "outside" influences; and so that might
be one way of looking at karma and maya ...
<<Speculating about it is a meaningless exercise that gets you
nowhere (and maybe even can drown you in the ocean of
Seems as if we all tend to have our own definitions for
"meaningless exercises," among other things ...
<<So, if it's too deep for you, wade back to the shore and
start listening, questioning and learning instead of speculating
in circles. >>>>
My "speculating" happens to be, for me, a form of
"experiential activity" by which I, in effect, listen, question,
and learn. Sorry about that. I suppose we all tend to have
our "own ways and means"...
<<As for others, and whether or not they are "shoreline
theosophists" only they can know. >>
Really? Personally, I think I'm trying to be neither
"shoreline" nor anything else that seems "too confining,"
in a sense ...
<<And, whatever they say or teach about theosophy can only
be judged by its intrinsic value in helping others learn what
they need to know -- which they have to decide for
Yes, I seem to want to decide for myself what I want to ...
uh, speculate about. I seem to prefer leaving the "knowing"
to a later and "more relevant" stage in my evolution ...
although ... That is, in the meanwhile, I might even go so far
to sort of pretend that I "know" a few things ... ^:-) ...
<<I think I answered it above. In any event, why would a
real theosophist have any "frustrations" (whatever that
I think I answered it above ...
<<What difference does it make about what anyone thinks
about anyone else's understanding of theosophy? >>
Well, I thought this was a discussion group about
t/Theosophy, so seems to me that some "apparent
differences" might be discussed, on this list, occasionally,
maybe, preferably in some kind of friendly and constructive
manner, maybe ... (as I'm trying to do right now, believe or
not, if in my way ... ).
<<make about what anyone thinks about anyone else's
understanding of theosophy? I can't imagine anyone who
talks about theosophy being frustrated because no one
listens to what he has to say -- unless, whatever he does say is
completely uninteresting or incomprehensible to someone
desirous of learning about theosophy, or completely off the
wall to those who are knowledgeable of it. In that case, the
one so frustrated, might start learning theosophy by asking
the right questions (to oneself, to books, gurus, or other
theosophists) that are pertinent to acquiring such knowledge.
I think I already responded to that kind of commentary ...
<<Speculatively, >Mauri>PS I suppose one might say (and I
might tend to agree) that that "Speculatively" might be meant
as an indication of my frustration, in a sense, (among other
things?), with my feeling that I seem to be at some shoreline
of ... something, maybe ... ^:-) ... >>>>
<<<So, you were talking about yourself, after all.>>
I think I had in mind something like a projected, generalized
or "general" impression that might, theoretically, exist
(somewhere?) re my apparent ... whatever ... In other words, I
was speculating about the "impression" I might be creating,
"in general." On the other hand, of course, whatever
impression I might be creating, out there (I tend to suspect)
might be way off the mark, in terms of ... whatever ... hee hee
... Sorry about that. (I'm tending to assume that one can be
reasonably enough seen to go "hee hee" and be "sorry," at the
same time, more or less ... But/"but" ...?)
<<< Well, one way to get off that shoreline and learn to swim
in deeper water, without the buoyancy offered by someone
else's words (GS, to be specific) is to read what I had to say
before I found that out.>>
I tend to suspect that that "buoyancy" thing works both ways,
basically, in a sense ...
<<<(Although I did speculate that you were projecting :-)
Generalizing, in a way, believe it or not ...
<<<Anyway, one way to stop being frustrated is to take the
bull by the horns, stop speculating, and feeling sorry for
yourself, and start learning what you need to know about
Which kind of thing, when run through my mill, comes out as
something like: maybe I ought to speculate some more, and
... Leon, you don't seem to have given much indication that
you have any kind of realistic handle about the potentials
inherent in certain kinds of "speculations," so ...
<< -- without incoherent ramblings, wild speculations, vague
allusions, incomplete sentences, undefined words, or else ...
something ... maybe -- which makes no sense. Hopefully,
Yes, we all have our "own" interpretive/karmic tendencies,
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