Re: Bhakti Ananda Goswami on the "Esoteric and Science News" website
Jan 01, 2003 03:42 PM
by Bhakti Ananda Goswami " <email@example.com>
RESPONSE FROM BHAKTI ANANDA GOSWAMI AT >>>
PLEASE EXCUSE THE CAPS, I AM NOT SHOUTING...
From: "Morten Nymann Olesen" <global-theosophy@a...>
Date: Wed Jan 1, 2003 12:16 pm
Subject: Re: Theos-World Bhakti Ananda Goswami on the "Esoteric and
Science News" website
I am back - all of you,
My views are given in the below:
Just read the below from D. Caldwell.
And I have to say, that if B. A. Goswami support the following link, -
then - the issue of "Dugpaship" comes to my mind. Truth is truth.
On what "Dugpas" are - try this:
http://www.katinkahesselink.net/occult.htm (Blavatsky article)
http://www.theosophy-nw.org/theosnw/ctg/dn-dz.htm (COLLATION OF
>>>HERE ARE SOME OF THE DUGPA REFERENCES MENTIONED ABOVE
One could even dispense with any lofty standard of morality. In the
last case, of course, ten to one the student would blossom into a
very decent kind of sorcerer, and tumble down headlong into black
magic. But what can this matter? The Voodoos and the Dugpas eat,
drink and are merry over heca-tombs of victims of their infernal
arts. And so do the amiable gentlemen vivisectionists and the diploma-
ed "Hypnotizers" of the Faculties of Medicine; tube only difference
between the two classes being that the Voodoos and Dugpas are
conscious, and the Charcot-Richet crew unconscious, Sorcerers. Thus,
since both have to reap the fruits of their labours and achievements
in the black art, the Western practitioners should not have the
punishment and reputation without the profits and enjoyments they may
get therefrom. For we say it again, hypnotism and vivisection as
practiced in such schools, are schools, are Sorcery pure and simple,
minus a knowledge that the Voodoos and Dugpas enjoy, and which no
Charcot-Richet can procure for himself in fifty years of hard study
and experimental observation. Let then those who will dabble in
magic, whether they understand its nature or not, but who find the
rules imposed upon students too hard, and who, therefore lay Atma-
Vidya or Occultism aside--go without it. Let them become magicians by
all means, even though they do become Voodoos and Dugpas for the next
TG Dugpas (Tib.). Lit., "Red Caps," a sect in Tibet. Before the
advent of Tsong-ka-pa in the fourteenth century, the Tibetans, whose
Buddhism had deteriorated and been dreadfully adulterated with the
tenets of the old Bhon religion, -- were all Dugpas. From that
century, however, and after the rigid laws imposed upon the Gelukpas
(yellow caps) and the general reform and purification of Buddhism (or
Lamaism), the Dugpas have given themselves over more than ever to
sorcery, immorality, and drunkenness. Since then the word Dugpa has
become a synonym of "sorcerer", "adept of black magic" and everything
vile. There are few, if any, Dugpas in Eastern Tibet, but they
congregate in Bhutan, Sikkim, and the borderlands generally.
Europeans not being permitted to penetrate further than those
borders, the Orientalists never having studied Buddho-Lamaism in
Tibet proper, but judging of it on hearsay and from what Cosmo di
Koros, Schlagintweit, and a few others have learnt of it from Dugpas,
confuse both religions and bring then) under one head. They thus give
out to the public pure Dugpaism instead of Buddho-Lamaism. In short
Northern Buddhism in its purified, metaphysical form is almost
VS dread Dad-Dugpa clan (III 11) [[p. 51]] The Bhons or Dugpas, the
sect of the "Red Caps," are regarded as the most versed in sorcery.
They inhabit Western and little Tibet and Bhutan. They are all
Tantrikas. It is quite ridiculous to find Orientalists who have
visited the borderlands of Tibet, such as Schlagintweit and others,
confusing the rites and disgusting practices of these with the
religious beliefs of the Eastern Lamas, the "Yellow Caps," and their
Narjols or holy men. The following is an instance.
FY Dugpas, the "Red Caps," evil magicians, belonging to the left-hand
path of occultism, so called in Tibet.
WG Dugpa (Thibetan), a sorcerer or "red-cap" of Bhootan. (See
SD INDEX Dugpa(s) (Tib). See also Sorcerers
power of II 221n
swastika on idols of II 586
>>>MR OLESON, WOULD YOU KINDLY EXPLAIN TO ME WHY YOU HAVE MENTIONED
ME IN THE CONTEXT OF DUGPA AS DEFINED ABOVE ?
>>>I HAVE CLEARLY IDENTIFIED MY RELIGIOUS AFFILIATIONS AND LINEAGE,
AND HAVE PROVIDED EVIDENCE OF THE SAME. (SEE MY AFFILIATION WITH THE
WORLD VAISHNAVA ASSOCIATION.) I AM A RESPECTED SANNYASI OF THE
BRAHMA-MADHVA GAUDIYA LINEAGE OF VAISHNAVISM. THIS IS AN EXTREMELY
SATTVIC (HOLY, ASCETIC OR PIETISTIC) TRADITION. IF YOU DO NOT KNOW
WHAT THAT MEANS, ALLOW ME TO TELL YOU. I AM STRICTLY CELIBATE AND
CHASTE AND HAVE NOT EATEN ANY FLESH INCLUDING FOWL, FISH OR EGGS FOR
OVER 30 YEARS. I PRACTICE NO MAGIC OR ANIMAL SACRIFICES. NOT ONLY
AM I NOT A DRUNK. BUT FOR OVER 30 YEARS I HAVE NOT BEEN A DRINKER OF
ALCOHOL OR EVEN COLA OR COFFEE. I HAVE NOT SMOKED TOBACCO, MARIJUANA
OR TAKEN ANY OTHER KINDS OF INTOXICANTS. THUS I PRACTICE THE SATTVIC
VOWS OF AHIMSA (NON VIOLENCE) , DHIRA (SOBRIETY), SATYA (TRUTH) AND
BRAHMACARYA (CHASTITY, PLUS MANY OTHER VOWS, SUCH AS VOLUNTARY
SIMPLICITY ('POVERTY'), CONTROL OF AND PURITY OF SPEACH, DEDICATION
TO THE MENIAL PHYSICAL SERVICE TO OTHERS, DAILY SHASTRIC STUDY,
OFFERING ALL MY 'MERIT' FOR THE SALVATION OF OTHERS, AND A MINIMUM OF
6 HOURS OF INTERCESSORY PRAYER A DAY.
>>>THIS HARDLY QUALIFIES ME TO BE ASSOCIATED WITH THE LEFT-HAND
TANTRIKA DUGPA SECT. IN FACT I HAVE SPENT MY LIFE OPPOSING THE EVILS
OF SUCH TAMASIC RELIGIONS, AND HAVE ACTUALLY RESCUED, BY THE GRACE OF
GOD, SOME POOR SOULS FROM THE BONDAGE OF FLESH EATING, INTOXICATION,
ILLICIT SEX AND LYING.
I quote this:
"Editor: Since the group of 170 scholars from the various neo-
groups and organisations has yielded so few responses that were able
match the scholarship of BA G, I have invited Eric Wynants (an expert
the history of esoteric movements worldwide) and an Indologist
in Buddhism who will due to his academic position participate under
My Sufilight answer:
Well, but B. A. Goswami has as I understand it - more than one time
Theos-Talk stated, that debates with non-scholars are out of the
>>> WHAT IS THIS A REFERENCE TO ? I WILL 'DEBATE' ANYONE ANYTIME IF
THERE SEEMS TO BE ENOUGH VALUE IN IT. I HAVE ONLY POSTED MY
CREDENTIALS HERE SO THAT OTHERS MAY KNOW 'WHERE I AM COMING FROM'.
I AM FROM THE SCHOOL THAT SAYS ONE'S TRAINING AND QUALIFICATION IS
IMPORTANT. WHILE IT IS SAFE TO ASSUME THAT DANIEL IS AN EXPERT ON
THEOSOPHY, DUE TO HIS WELL-KNOWN POSITION, NO ONE HERE KNEW WHAT MY
QUALIFICATION WAS TO SPEAK ON THE VEDAS OR PURANAS IN RELATION TO THE
WRITINGS OF HPB AND HER MAHATMAS. SO I PROVIDE MY INFORMATION.
>>>I KNOW NOTHING ABOUT THE EDITOR(S) OF THE ESOTERIC NEWS SITE, AND
AM UNDER NO OBLIGATION TO SPEAK FOR OR IDENTIFY OR DEFEND HIM, HER OR
>>>I AM NOT THEM OR RELATED TO THEM IN ANY WAY. I AM MERELY A PERSON
WHO SENT SOME LETTERS TO THE SITE, IN RESPONSE TO A NUMBER OF THE
>>>I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THE SITE'S EDITORS' MOTIVES HAVE BEEN OR ARE.
I AM SIMPLY CONTRIBUTING MY OPINIONS ON A NUMBER OF SUBJECTS TO SOME
>>>WHEN I INITIALLY WROTE TO THE ESOTERIC NEWS SITE I GAVE BLANKET
PERMISSION TO USE ANY INFORMATION FROM MY LETTERS. THAT IS HOW SOME
OF MY WRITINGS ENDED UP HERE. WHEN I WAS INFORMED ABOUT THIS SITE, I
CAME HERE AND IDENTIFIED MYSELF. AS A RESULT, I WAS ACCUSED OF LYING
ABOUT MY IDENTITY AND BEING SOMEONE ELSE. TWICE MY GALVA BIOGRAPHY
AND ARTICLE LINK HAS BEEN POSTED HERE, WHICH HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH
ANYTHING ON THIS SITE. INSTEAD OF BEING OFFENED THAT THE QUESTION OF
MY GENDER WAS INTRODUCED HERE, I SIMPLY TOOK THE OPPORTUNITY TO TEACH
THE READERS HERE ABOUT THE REALITY AND SUFFERINGS OF SEX AND GENDER
DIFFERENT PEOPLE. THEN I DID NOT RAISE THE ISSUE OF HPB BEING
AN "HERMAPHRODITE". I VOICED MY OPINION ON THIS SUBJECT BECAUSE I
WAS ASKED IT. THEN I WAS ASSOCIATED (BY CONTEXT OF STATEMENT) WITH
THE CATHOLIC AND HINDU MAL-TREATMENT OF WOMEN, AND NOW I HAVE AGAIN
BEEN ASSOCIATED IN YOUR ABOVE STATEMENT WITH SOMETHING THAT I HAVE
SPENT A LIFETIME BEING OPPOSED TO. I AM OPPOSED TO SEXISM AND ALL
THE EVILS OF LEFT-HAND TANTRISM.
>>>I HAVE LIVED A LIFE OF COMMITTMENT TO HOLINESS AND HUMBLE SERVICE
TO OTHERS. HOW CAN ONE WHO HAS VOWED THEIR SOUL FOR THE SALVATION
OF THE "LAST HUNGRY GHOST" IN THE UNIVERSE BE MOTIVATED BY HATE FOR
ANY BEING ? IT SEEMS THAT YOU HAVE ASSUMED THAT I HATE HPB, BECAUSE
I HAVE WRITTEN ABOUT HER LACK OF HONESTY. IT IS OUT OF LOVE THAT I
HAVE TAKEN THE CONSIDERABLE EFFORT TO WRITE ANYTHING AT ALL ON THE
SUBJECT OF HPB AND THEOSOPHY. TO HAVE MY MOTIVES SO ATTACKED HERE,
SAYS SOMETHING VERY SAD ABOUT THE ATTACKERS.
>>>I AM NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR ANYONE ELSE'S MOTIVES, ONLY FOR MY OWN,
AND MY MOTIVE HERE HAS BEEN ONE OF LOVE.
>>>WISHING YOU ALL WELL, AND WEARY OF BEING ABUSED HERE,
>>>SHANTI SHANTI SHANTI,
>>>BHAKTI ANANDA GOSWAMI
So what is this above socalled "Editor"s motives ?
I think that this Editor is wrong and lies.
And this one too:
Quoting from the site:
"BA G: The Masters as extra-"ordinary" beings is asserted here. One
reject the fictitious claims made for the Masters and still accept
mortal human terms, HPB's human prototypes for the Masters WERE
extra-ordinary people. They were uniquely privileged and intelligent
strategically located in time and place to create a unique synthesis
Eastern and Western thought systems. The problem is not in
giftedness of HPB and her Masters, it is in being required to accept
whole fictional package that they have been wrapped in. The problem
basic lack of honesty and forth-rightness that pervades the entire
Theosophical enterprise. However this can be understood as a pathology
common to all secret societies and "occult" brotherhoods that normally
function under the cover of various forms of purposeful obscuration
Internal discussion of falsified Mahatma Letters runs throughout the
Theosophical Society documents. A lot of expert sophistry and word-
is used to euphemize the obvious lying, cheating and deception that
going on in the organization. "
My Sufilight answer:
None is required to accept anything as stated above. But one is
encouraged to THINK or something like that. The use of the
in the above is clearly false and NOT Theosophical teaching.
If the "wrapping of the package" is fictional or not, or partly so is
less importance; - i.e. misunderstandings can always occur on a
level. The core teachings of Theosophy is the key to it all.
Learn to use the "7 keys" as mentioned by Blavatsky - and seek avoid
dead-letter thinking and reading.
And a distastefull quote still runs the frontpage of an almost similar
at http://mailbox.univie.ac.at/%7Emuehleb9/ :
"This expose begins with one of the most totalizing of modern myths:
Theosophy. Privileged spokespersons present themselves as the sole
legitimate conduits of ancient wisdom. Contenders are ruthlessly
an array of verbal arguments as well as practical measures."
The above is a clear lie. And there is no need to clarify that !
Martin Luther King Jr. two excerpts:
"I think the first reason that we should love our enemies, and I
is at the very center of Jesus' thinking, is this: that hate for hate
intensifies the existence of hate and evil in the universe. If I hit
you hit me and I hit you back and you hit me back and go on, you see,
goes on ad infinitum. It just never ends. Somewhere somebody must
little sense, and that's the strong person. The strong person is the
who can cut off the chain of hate, the chain of evil. And that is the
tragedy of hate, that it doesn't cut it off. It only intensifies the
existence of hate and evil in the universe. Somebody must have
enough and morality enough to cut it off, and inject within the very
structure of the universe that strong and powerful element of love."
Excerpted from "Loving Your Enemies", a sermon delivered on 17
at Dexter Avenue Baptist Church in Montgomery, Ala. (full text)
"Now let me suggest first that if we are to have peace on earth, our
loyalties must become ecumenical rather that sectional. Our loyalties
transcend our race, our tribe, our class, and our nation; and this
must develop a world perspective. No individual can live alone; no
can live alone, and as long as we try, the more we are going to have
this world. Now the judgement of God is upon us, and we must either
live together as brothers or we are all going to perish together as
Excerpted from "A Christmas Sermon on Peace", delivered on 24
at Ebenezer Baptist Church in Atlanta, Ga.
Well perish, yes - but maybe only due to Karma...>:-)
Attraction of Celebrities
A man who is being delivered frim the danger of a fierce lion deos not
object, wheather this service is performed by an unknown or by an
illustrious individual. Why, therefore, do people seek knowledge from
I think it was the sufi El-Ghazali (d.1111) who said something like
The disticntion between opinion and knowledge is something, which can
be lost. When this happens,
it is incumbent upon those who know the difference to make it plain
as they are able.
This habit of confusing opinion with knowledge is almost a epidemic
Well, that was years ago, but this issue seems to be a disease even
It is allright that some people have authorities. But they have to be
constructive. If the authority is
destructive, then I won't be good and have to be stopped.
I could ask if any has an opinion on wheather any authorities today
or bad, and I would probably get a lot of hands.
But if I ask about if any have the needed spiritual knowledge to
wheather it is true, - I bet near all the hands will fall down - if
truth was to be presented.
Please rethink your positions...
M. sufilight with peace...peace...peace...
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, January 01, 2003 5:07 PM
Subject: Theos-World Bhakti Ananda Goswami on the "Esoteric and
> Dear Bhakti Ananda Goswami,
> Since you are announcing on Theos-Talk an article about HPB
> on the "Esoteric and Science News" website at
> <http://mailbox.univie.ac.at/~muehleb9/> ,
> can you tell us who is the CURRENT editor of that website?
> In early to mid Nov. 2002, the editor of that site was still Brian
> Muehlebach, who had mysteriously taken over the editorship from
> Brigitte Muehlegger in Aug. 2002.
> But soon after Eldon Tucker "booted" Brian from Theos-Talk in the
> latter part of Nov., Brian's name as editor disappeared COMPLETELY
> from that website and Raphael Vishanu (Gregory Tillett should
> remember that name) became the editor.
> Go to the very bottom of the page at
> and see the link to "Editor". This link goes to
> A week ago this link gave pictures apparently of R.V. Now the link
> is dead. But notice the pictures and the caption right above
> this "Editor" link. The caption reads:
> "This morning yours editor went out at six in the morning Dec. 24,
> 2002, and while my two children were putting rice in the monk's
> that they carry each morning from/to their monasteries, I took a few
> pictures for you. This is near the border of Burma/Thailand where we
> live surrounded by more than 100 acres of rice field (that are
> entirely by hand). Picture to the left is when the light was just
> Also I do not as of this morning see Raphael Vishanu's name listed
> editor anywhere on this homepage. In December his name as editor was
> on the homepage of the website.
> OBTW, I see a "mirror" site of "Esoteric and Science News" at:
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